Modern Cars are Pretty Amazing

Random Comment: Cars have come a long way. 

 I've only ever owned one new car, my wife's infinity. My daily is 13 years old, and most cars I've owned  are that age or older, the point is, I'm accustomed to being at least two generations behind car wise..  This morning I caught a ride in my neighbors rubber bumper MGB . It was astonishing how noisy and flexy cars of that era are compared to now. Honestly, it makes a 91 Miata sound and feel like a Benz SL, and was a little scary on the highway.  We always talk about how modern cars have numb steering, but that MG, whew, it felt like playing soccer in ski boots. Never mind that the Miata's reliably functioning air-conditioning and electronics are comparatively  a marvel of design and manufacturing that we pretty much now take for granted . 

Go drive an ND or Boxster/Cayman

Yes, a modern car does make it a lot nicer when you need to send a text or check your Instagram feed...   Being a little scared of you car is a good thing.

But, you are correct, the level of development from the 60’s is pretty insane, especially when you adjust the prices for inflation.

This made me chuckle as an MGB feels like a solid piece of steel compared to a Spitfire... although the steering feel in a Spit is about as direct as you can get. Only my Mini with a fast-ratio rack felt... "more"... 

There is definitely a fine line when upgrading vintage cars to more modern specs.  Trying to add enough creature comforts to make the car more practical for more frequent use without eliminating the character that makes them fun in the first place.

Yeah, there's a reason I finally sold my GT6. It just felt almost scary to drive, even though it was in tip-top condition with some modern upgrades.  But never felt remotely safe to be in around modern traffic speeds/size. 

My "upgrade" was an '88 Porsche 924 - which actually feels like a pretty "modern" car in terms most things (aside from no airbags). It doesn't feel particularly "dated" in driving dynamics compared to my 2009 WRX, honestly. Though both have lots of interior plastic haha.

A friend of mine had a decent-but-not-perfect MGB in the mid-2000s. To me it felt like a bigger, sloppier Miata with a tractor engine. It looked cool, but the driving experience was seriously lacking.

I think that the surprisingly modern feel of my 2002 is one of the main reasons I've kept it for over 20 years. The suspension is upgraded and I added some bolt-in chassis braces, but the basic package was very good to begin with, compared with other cars of the era. Yes, it's noisier and less cosseting than anything newish, but I've driven it on long road trips and never felt it lacked the ability to keep pace with traffic.

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) :

Do you really think it’s that amazing?  The MGB you put down was introduced 56 years ago.  

Go back 56 years from that and look at how far it got . What was a 1906 car like?  

I was stunned when I bought my ra29 (77) celica, how well that car drove. It did 100% of the things an na miata did (we tested back to back over a full day trip and trackday) but was just a hair faster and because coupe it was a bit more rigid. That was a hell of a little car. Always felt like you'd surely die if you crashed it though. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) :

Do you really think it’s that amazing?  The MGB you put down was introduced 56 years ago.  

Go back 56 years from that and look at how far it got . What was a 1906 car like?  

I do think it's pretty amazing.  Just because technological progress is the product of dedicated effort and incremental improvements doesn't make it any less wonderful. We complain about tight legroom in coach, but overlook how cool it is to fly 8000 miles traveling 500+ knots at 38000 feet. 

Also, I wasn't at all putting down the MGB, in fact I'm shopping for one. My comment about it being scary on the highway relates to  it struggling to keep pace with traffic when distracted soccer moms are whizzing along at eighty miles an hour in giant SUVs.

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) : In 1906 Cars were extremely rare and owned by the very rich 

56 years later the MGB was  introduced along with many many others including the Jaguar XKE and followed by the Corvette Sting ray of 1963   Nothing that advanced has been introduced this year. 

But I get your point. For a couple of hundred dollars it’s no big deal to fly halfway across the country at near the speed of sound. 

The device in your hand exceeds all the computing and communications required to launch the first men into orbit. 

Technology and commonality are moving at a pace impossible for my generation to keep up with let alone lead.  At this pace how soon will self driving everything remove the driving experience completely?  

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) :

"Soccer mom's" driving at 80mph in Texas or California are going too slow. 

Hey not all MGBs have sloppy, uncommunicative steering! Mine is loaded with tactile feel, although it does have a small amount of play. You'd be amazed at how fun a well set up B is to drive. Unfortunately you're right about the noise though. You could load it down with every kind of insulation and did deadening and it would still be pretty noisy.

Rubber bumper MGBs are horrid cars compared to the early chrome bumper cars.

They gutted the performance (low compression, single carb) and totally screwed up the handling - their cheap way of attaining new federal bumper heights wasn't to redesign the front of the car, as that would have cost money. They just raised the ride height so they made the mandated bumper height, and over the next few years did a few (very few) changes to try and reduce the effect on handling.

To properly assess the MGB as a model, you have to try a restored chrome bumper car that has had all the worn out bits replaced.

One point to remember - the unibody used in the MGB iss actually a good stiff chassis, but it relies in large part on the inner rocker structure under the doors for that.  I've seen cars that were rotted out and the owner just replaced the outer rocker to make it look better before selling it, while leaving it unsafe with essential frame parts missing. Flexible flyers indeed.

In reply to wspohn :

You are very right.  The MGB has the same unibody as everyone else. OK so Taxicab wanna-be’s  May have a roof panel   But I remind you that Formula 1 Indy cars and many other modern racecars lack a roof panel too.  

Besides there are several ways to get good handling. nobody complains that Morgan’s don’t handle well and they have a wood frame.  

yupididit said:

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) :

"Soccer mom's" driving at 80mph in Texas or California are going too slow. 

That is the downside to our new cars being so good. Speeds that "daredevils" only attempted are now easily within reach of the most inexperienced 16 year old or feeble old grandmother. Today's cars may be too good in a lot of ways. With all the sound deadening, traction and stability aids, by the time you get in over your head, you are in WAY over your head and there is no recovering.. even if you had the skills and experience to do so

My friend DD'd an E30.. until he passed a fatal accident in seattle in one.  He now has a newish volvo for his daily.  the Volvo is faster and more comfortable, but the E30 is more fun....

frenchyd said:

Besides there are several ways to get good handling. nobody complains that Morgan’s don’t handle well and they have a wood frame.  

The Morgan "frame" is the structure to hang the body panels on. The car has a steel chassis. It's basically no different than a body on frame car in that regard.

What I find interesting here is that we're comparing an MGB to a 1991 Miata. That's not a modern car. In fact, it can legitimately wear classic plates in many states. Compare that 1991 Miata to a 2018 and you'll be amazed at the progress. Better economy, more power, more torque, a stiffer chassis, same weight, much improved safety (active and passive), an easier-to-operate top, better soundproofing, better grip, more suspension travel, much lower emissions and much better equipped inside. All for the same price adjusted for inflation.

  The ND is a pretty spectacular car.   A couple of niggling ergonomic flaws away from  being a perfect sports car really.   

My TR6 feels like it's chassis was designed in the 1940's......because it was.  It's numerous flaws are one of the reasons I enjoy driving it....it feels old, it feels mechanically direct.  It isn't perfect, and yes, it's a deathtrap compared to modern cars.  Sure does look and sound good though..... and on a nice evening with the top down, sometimes that's all that matters.   

If we all wanted perfect cars we'd be driving Camrys.  

mad_machine said:

yupididit said:

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) :

"Soccer mom's" driving at 80mph in Texas or California are going too slow. 

That is the downside to our new cars being so good. Speeds that "daredevils" only attempted are now easily within reach of the most inexperienced 16 year old or feeble old grandmother. Today's cars may be too good in a lot of ways. With all the sound deadening, traction and stability aids, by the time you get in over your head, you are in WAY over your head and there is no recovering.. even if you had the skills and experience to do so

Agreed. That was one reason why my ex- got rid of her M3 after buying her MCS.  It was simply more fun in real-world driving.  Push too far in the MCS - oops - a bit of understeer. Push too far in the M3 - and they may be picking your ass out of a tree...

Driving my Spitfire can be a white-knuckle experience on some roads while barely exceeding the speed limit.

I just went to a car show in Calfornia with some family and friends and my cousin and I drove my Uncle's mint 1964 Corvette convertible about 300 miles from Novato to Redding.

It's in mint condition and pretty much original so it drove pretty well, but you do start to appreciate things like power steering, air conditioning, disc brakes and seat belts a lot more after driving something from the 60s.

the ND and 2018+ Mustang GT are both amazing modern performance packages for completely different reasons and I feel that both are underappreciated by the market. 

I hadn't intended to start a discussion of the merits of old (more direct) versus new (safer, faster), I was just commenting on the *rate* of change. Like the old Virginia Slims ad says  "You've come a long way baby." 

Keith, part of the reason I resist driving a Miata newer than 2002 is that I'm pretty sure if I did I'd want one!

The modern car is the best-engineered machine many of us will ever operate.

ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) said:

I hadn't intended to start a discussion of the merits of old (more direct) versus new (safer, faster), I was just commenting on the *rate* of change. Like the old Virginia Slims ad says  "You've come a long way baby." 

Keith, part of the reason I resist driving a Miata newer than 2002 is that I'm pretty sure if I did I'd want one!

On a similar note - my mom's first car was a very early MGB. When I was in high school, that would have been an old car. 5-8 years ago, I was on a trip to Canada and I borrowed her 1990 Miata for a road trip. I realized partway through that trip that I didn't think of the Miata as an old car - but it was the same age as that MGB would have been when I was in high school. Now that was an eye-opener.

There was a lot of progress between that 1962 MGB and a 1990 Miata for sure - that was a busy 28 years. But there's almost been an invisible step change in the abilities of modern cars in the past half decade or so, it's like a bunch of work just gelled. You don't realize it until you start digging inside. In the 28 years since the 1990 Miata was introduced, the rate of change hasn't really slowed down that much. It's just not as obvious to the casual observer as carburetors and friction shocks.