Modern R12 Replacement Suggestions

Old John Deere 2755, we've been running Red Tek R12 replacement in it for years with good results.  The A/C system was recently evacuated to accommodate some other repairs.  Went to Amazon to order some more Red Tek, but they ain't got any.  They've got the oil, sealant, seal conditioner, and whatever "performance enhancer" is (HGH for your A/C?) but no refrigerant.

Struck out on Google too.  Found some on eBay, but it's 3X the price of what I last bought it for.

Searching for other options I came across FrostyCool.com and their reasonably priced Frosty Cool 12a.  I've not found much in the way of reviews and their website looks like it was made with Netscape Composer circa 2002, so I thought I'd ask if anyone had any experience with them, or any recommendations for a similar product?

I'm not converting to R134a, so save your breath, sticking with R12 replacement refrigerants.

Propane? 

There used to be a product called Freeze 12, but it seems to have disappeared.

That's another one of the propane based refrigerants.  People report good performance from those, but, well, NO SMOKING!  I guess that if your tractor is going to sit outside all the time, or in a drafty barn, it could be OK. 

I have a vehicle with an R12 system that I'd love to NOT convert to 134a, but I haven't found a non-explosive R12 refrigerant.  I think I'll end up with 134a.

In reply to Uncle David (Forum Supporter) :

Most cars are driving around with 12+ gallons of highly volatile flammable liquid in them.  The tractor has dozens of gallons of diesel & hydraulic fluid in it, it's usually covered in flammable hay residue, and there's a can or two of ether rolling around in the cab at any given time.  I'm not worried about adding another pressurized hydrocarbon to the mix. 

That Red Tek we were using was great, their ad literature claims it's in the butane/propane family.

I recently filled the R12 system in my 91 Corvette with Enviro-safe and it blows colder than ever and wasn't expensive at all. 

I am using isobutane. Works a little better than R12, and was reasonable $ when I last purchased from  https://autorefrigerants.com/ Sold as Enviro-safe.

I have also used EnviroSafe to good affect.

Looking into options for my 92 C1500. Are you all using the quick charge kit from Enviro-Safe-refrigerants-and-accompanying-products - Auto Refrigerants

In reply to solfly :

I am not using a "kit". I buy the big can that does about 20 system fills and use an old gauge set and the vacuum pump I orriginally bought for vacuum bagging composites.

Coleman refrigerant works pretty well. It is drier than what comes in the big bottles. I don't know that I would run it in a car but I would run it in a tractor. It's not like you will crash it. I may or may not know someone that is running it in a mini-split in his shop. 

I have had great luck charging systems off gas grill cylinders.

Just gotta watch your gauges and the pressure/temp curves.  

There was some other benefit to using propane like the molecules were bigger or something so it didnt leak.  

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

The molecules are larger so the systems are less likely to leak. Propane also operates at lower pressures so the system is more efficient. 

can't get on board with propane

In reply to solfly :

It's fairly common in commercial systems and in Europe and sold as R290. It's considered a natural refrigerant. It is more environmentally friendly than any of the synthetic refrigerants on the market from the point of greenhouse emissions and power requirements. It has a GWP of 3 compared to R134a which has a GWP of 1300. Unfortunately, we have a huge lobbyist that spends millions getting the refrigerant requirements changed every few decades so they can sell billions in new products when they issue a new patent. The EU reduced their GWP limit to 150. It just so happens that Dupont has a patented refrigerant that meets those standards. Dupont's R1234yf, which they are pushing to replace R134a is only supposed to be 8-10 times more expensive than R134a. It's also flammable and has the added benefit of creating hydrofluoric acid when it burns. 

Some reading. 

https://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/exclusive/view_ac_becomes_political.html

https://eng.ucmerced.edu/people/awesterling/SPR2014.ESS141/Assignments/DuPont

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to solfly :

I am not using a "kit". I buy the big can that does about 20 system fills and use an old gauge set and the vacuum pump I orriginally bought for vacuum bagging composites.

just to be clear you're using that and charging right into a non converted r12 system?

93gsxturbo said:

I have had great luck charging systems off gas grill cylinders.

Just gotta watch your gauges and the pressure/temp curves.  

There was some other benefit to using propane like the molecules were bigger or something so it didnt leak.  

Are there published tables for this?

In reply to bentwrench :

Look for an R290 chart. There is one Here.

bigdaddylee82 said:

In reply to Uncle David (Forum Supporter) :

Most cars are driving around with 12+ gallons of highly volatile flammable liquid in them.  The tractor has dozens of gallons of diesel & hydraulic fluid in it, it's usually covered in flammable hay residue, and there's a can or two of ether rolling around in the cab at any given time.  I'm not worried about adding another pressurized hydrocarbon to the mix. 

That Red Tek we were using was great, their ad literature claims it's in the butane/propane family.

The concern is if the evaporator leaks.  In a closed cabin with the engine off, the low side pressure might get up to 120-140psi.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out that the issue is a little different than a fuel tank.

I ran R134 in a R12 system before. Didn't cool as well but it work. 

In reply to solfly :

That is correct, there is no conversion necessary. Iso butane should be available from a commercial gas supplier as well, though I have not tried. butane is compatible with either compressor lubricant, and all of the R12 or R134 sealing materials. Also it is not hydroscopic, so moisture entry is less likely in a leaky system.

Redtek (and similar) to the best of my knowledge was something like a 70/30 mix of propane and isobutane. Sooner places called it "Hydrocarbon blend B" or "HC12a". I've seen things on eBay that I think are the same, but nobody has an MSDS or anything that instills a lot of confidence. I'm not willing to spend big money on what is actually pretty cheap and readily available, even if it comes pre-blended.

It's a PITA to blend your own, don't ask me how I know.

envirosafe, frosty cool, or just r12 off of craiglist or ebay

probably getting the envirosafe

i think i have analysis paralysis on this

Finally ordered will report back