Modern Wagons That Can Tow?

So the station wagon thread got me thinking; are there modern wagons that can tow your race car.

I've known several people who used American V8 wagons but those really don't exist anymore.

I saw some information that said some if the BMW wagons can tow 5000lbs?

Tom1200 said:

So the station wagon thread got me thinking; are there modern wagons that can do your race car.

Open wheel/sports racer on an open trailer probably, but something like a Miata on an open trailer with a tire rack (pretty much required if you're racing) is going to be 4K pounds minimum.  I don't really care what the offcial tow rating is, doing that with a unibody car for any kind of distance is just a bad idea, IMHO.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I recall seeing some towing info on some of the spec sheets I was looking at while working on the article. Let me see what info I can track down.

I think the current best are the Volvo V90 (4850), MB E450 All-Terrain (4630), and Panamera Sport Turismo (4400).

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Tom1200 said:

So the station wagon thread got me thinking; are there modern wagons that can do your race car.

Open wheel/sports racer on an open trailer probably, but something like a Miata on an open trailer with a tire rack (pretty much required if you're racing) is going to be 4K pounds minimum.  I don't really care what the offcial tow rating is, doing that with a unibody car for any kind of distance is just a bad idea, IMHO.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this...  The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a unibody and can easily tow a race car, so can the Cayenne, X5, and GLE.  All of those have tow ratings of 7200+ so towing a 5k car & trailer has been done safely countless times.  (Jeep was lowered to 6200 since they don't have the v8)

I think the reality is while wagons are the great compromise between sedan like driving dynamics and SUV like cargo capacity but given the popularity of SUV's in America, if you want to tow in something that is still small enough to drive to the grocery store; a mid sized SUV is going to be your best bet.  The X5 for example is 1" shorter than a v70, it's a 5" wider, and 7" taller...   

I would also think it matters  if you have a single axle trailer or tandem axle , 

Just because it can pull 4000-5000lbs and hopefully stop  does not make it good for a stable ride , 

Be Safe

Edit , also matters if you have trailer brakes !

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Before I went all bougie with my 20yr old enclosed trailer I was only towing 2600lbs (Datsun and single axle trailer). 

My Outback works so well for me; so I've come to like wagons.

The reality is we are planning to upgrade the RV so that will likely be the new tow rig....................but man I'd love a wagon that could do it for local events.

One thing I don't get about towing is in Europe they rate lots of cars with a pretty high towing rating. Eg. Some Fiestas have 2200lbs tow capacity (presumably with a low tongue weight). I am under the impression tow ratings in North America are based on a SAE test pulling a load up/down a long mountain run.

I wonder if there should be a middle ground. Ie. You can infrequently tow X if you don't exceed speed Y and don't anticipate big grades.  I'm not certain of the legal implications of following a European rating vs US.

I don't have a lot of towing experience, but whenever these kinds of conversations come up people say "you don't want to do that." The compromise is driving a terrible vehicle (Crossover, truck, SUV) the rest of the time. Eg. I towed say 4500lbs in a Pathfinder with a 5000lbs rating. Seemed perfectly fine. Back when, it was common to tow small-medium sized boats with normalish vehicles.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

What makes for a "good stable ride" though?... These "cars" have similar weight, wheelbase, brakes, etc to the 5k-7k rated unibody C/SUV's, of which I've only seen and heard complimentary things from those who have actually towed with them.

Yes, unbraked ratings are always substantially lower than the braked (advertised) ratings.

In reply to Snrub :

I think the Euro tow ratings are at something like 50-55mph

Tom1200 said:

In reply to Snrub :

I think the Euro tow ratings are at something like 50-55mph

On the German autobahn you tow at 50 MPH , 80 KPH  same as the big trucks , so that might be where the ratings come from .

Here is a link with some info 

https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/146281-towing-speed-limit-in-germany/

Back in the day, I towed my Sprite racecar on an open single axle trailer  with a tire rack behind a Volvo 240 wagon, 4 speed.....then I slept in the wagon all weekend.

I now tow my classic Mini Cooper behind my 2017 Audi Allroad with its 7 speed dual clutch. A/C and cruise control are such nice things to have! 

There are tons of pics on the net of high end formula, dragsters and sport racers being towed behind American wagons back in the late 60's and 70's before custom built semi trailers became a thing.

Even things like the TSX which you would think could tow are limited to 1000lbs. I think the E450 wagon has the highest rating in the USA at around 4500lbs .

I've towed open motorcycle trailers all over the country with RWD Volvo 245/740/940 wagons.  Never any trouble.

But when you get to 4000+ lbs, IMO you want two trailer axles, trailer brakes, and a load equalizing + sway control hitch.  Those are all important safety equipment. Don't cheap out on the hitch.

"too much tow vehicle" results in poorer fuel economy and less usability as a daily driver.  "too little tow vehicle" results in a dangerous ride.  Everyone's situation is different but my solution is a dedicated (burly) tow vehicle, and a small fun car as a daily driver. 

Unibodies tow just fine. Just load it right and don't drive like an idiot . 

Toyman! said:

Unibodies tow just fine. Just load it right and don't drive like an idiot . 

There's an awful lot of squat on the rear end of that SUV.

I'm a fan of using the right tool for the job, and IMHO for towing a production car that tool is a truck.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Tom1200 said:

So the station wagon thread got me thinking; are there modern wagons that can do your race car.

Open wheel/sports racer on an open trailer probably, but something like a Miata on an open trailer with a tire rack (pretty much required if you're racing) is going to be 4K pounds minimum.  I don't really care what the offcial tow rating is, doing that with a unibody car for any kind of distance is just a bad idea, IMHO.

 

Trailex trailers are 800lbs for their lightest model - and my Miata are ~2200 - so you can get them in the region of ~3k +/-

I've towed a lot of things with things you're "not supposed to" - if you're smart about it I wouldn't sweat ~3500lbs with most modern unibodies. My tow-dolly was 500lbs - so their lightest model is only 300lbs more. Their models also have surge brakes, which is probably the more important part of the equation. 

4cylinder, 5speed - ~3k lbs

In reply to Tom1200 :

I'd have to the find the specifics, but I know a ton of people who tow with BMW wagons of various flavors. To find the "real" mechanical towing capacity of cars I look at their Euro equivilant - IMO you just have to be smart about where you're towing and how your car is loaded.

Bronson of Brofab tows an enclosed trailer with a diesel vw touareg, etc. 

accordionfolder said:

Trailex trailers are 800lbs for their lightest model - and my Miata are ~2200 - so you can get them in the region of ~3k +/-

You can, but almost nobody does.  I can count on one hand the number of Miatas I've seen on trailex trailers because the $10K price tag really turns people off.  Most people are using steel or steel+wood trailers that are 2000 pounds by themselves.  Weld a tire rack on there then add another couple sets of tires, some fuel jugs, spare for the trailer, tongue box with a bunch of misc crap in it and pretty soon you're over 4500.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

accordionfolder said:

Trailex trailers are 800lbs for their lightest model - and my Miata are ~2200 - so you can get them in the region of ~3k +/-

You can, but almost nobody does.  I can count on one hand the number of Miatas I've seen on trailex trailers because the price tag really turns people off.  Most people are using steel or steel+wood trailers that are 2000 pounds by themselves.  Weld a tire rack on there then add another couple sets of tires, some fuel jugs, spare for the trailer, tongue box with a bunch of misc crap in it and pretty soon you're over 4500.

 

That wasn't why I posted it, you said:
"a Miata on an open trailer with a tire rack (pretty much required if you're racing) is going to be 4K pounds minimum."

Which isn't true, but to your second point - I found Trailex trailers on the regular for ~4k+/- when I was looking, just always in the wrong part of the country. You have to move on them immediately when you find them, they never stayed long in the 4-6 range. You can resell them for exactly what you paid eternally - I personally know of 4 people that run them exactly as I stated: Miata or other light cars behind unibody SUVs.

accordionfolder said:

That wasn't why I posted it, you said:
"a Miata on an open trailer with a tire rack (pretty much required if you're racing) is going to be 4K pounds minimum."

Hm.  I originally wrote something like "on a cheap/common open trailer", but I guess while I was editing the post I deleted the adjectives and forgot about it.  I know about the existence of trailex, a friend of mine used to have one, but it's basically the only one I've ever actually seen in use.

And again, the bare minimum trailer weight with just a Miata isn't what people actually tow.  Even on trailexs I suspect they add tire racks and extra sets of tires and tongue boxes full of tools and other stuff.

How long ago did you buy yours?  There are two on racingjunk.com right now, both asking $7500, so I suspect that $4K number may be out of date.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Gotcha - I mean, fair - they're definitely a more expensive option (even on the great deals), BUT they can work out cheaper overall since you don't have to buy a new truck with it I've seen really really old trailex units and they still look fantastic on the account of all aluminum construction. (I swear, I'm not sponsored by trailex, haha)

And you do have to be careful about overloading smaller unibody cars (or trucks, really), but I tracked for years without a full truck setup and it can be done - It's all a compromise.

My prices were 2021 or so, most of the ones I found were old Trailex trailers and I've seen a few good deals since then, but that's not "common" of course. Even at 7500 I'd say they're well worth it for someone looking to tow with anything unorthidox if they're well spec'd units.

My trailex was $2500, 11 months ago. Six new tires, new wiring and lights, new brake/hub assemblies (2), with new brake lines and coupler/master cylinder got it to about $4500.

This is one of the seller's photos, how one looks after 31 years. They're out there, but you've got to move fast. I contacted the owner within a few minutes of posting, and was still third person. Got because I wasn't a marketplace dumbass.

I guess I'd rather be safe.  Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a good idea.  My cayenne/touareg easily towed my E36 M3 on a featherlite trailer, probably 4500-4700lbs combined.  My GX470 struggled with towing the same load and felt significantly less stable.  I wouldn't be happy trying to tow with a station wagon...

In reply to docwyte :

I also think it comes down to how you tow.

Once upon a time I only towed locally. I didn't worry about being right on the limit.

For out of town trips; I tend to like overkill.