So I ended up taking my car to the mazda dealer yesterday for a metallic clattering on cold startups (new job means I can't get to my normal preferred shop). Less than 300 miles over 3K from my last oil change and only about 2.5 months, they call me back today and say that I was low on oil by 4 quarts!!!. I was a little astonished to say the least. I know my car has a slow oil leak, in the recent past I had my oil light coming on, and when I took it to my preferred shop, it was about 1/2qt low (this was after adding a partial 1qt bottle). Strange thing is, I don't remember seeing the oil light come on within the last 2.5 months or seeing any oil on the ground, so how could my car have lost 4qts? I'm taking the car back for an OCI on friday, what are my options if oil consumption isn't excessive?
Option 1;
Get an OCI monthly (or some mileage amount) until I've driven 3k or 3 months, either at mazda or the dealership I work at.
Option 2;
Regardless of the results of the OCI, take the car to my preferred shop and see what they have to say.
Option 3;
???? What says the hive?
BTW, car is an 04 mazda6 V6 mtx @134k
Pretty huge oil loss in a short period of time. It makes me wonder if you got "filled up" on the last oil change.
That is why I check my oil level regularly.
I have the same 3.0 V6 in my Mazda wagon. There is a much discussed PCV issue with that engine. Might be worthwhile to check your PCV valve. Fairly easy to replace. Hope there is no additional damage.
On my cell phone in between meetings. Apologize if the format on this post looks kind of funny.
In reply to RossD:
Oil Consumption Inspection. Basically they check the oil for you and tell you how low it is in the specified time you drove it.
iceracer wrote:
That is why I check my oil level regularly.
This. This right here. AFter the wife's old accent had a half quart of oil left in it because of a broken odometer (and the oil light only came on under hard cornering) I now check them every 2 weeks.Better to find it a quart low than 3.
Every time you put fuel in it, check the oil.
1 quart in 750 miles is four quarts in 3000, which is not out of line with modern low-tension everything.
1/2 quart low should not cause any oil light to come on. A lot of newer cars have a 2 quart range on the dipstick, and oil level sensors usually come on much lower than that.
Check your PCV valve and associated hoses. When I bought my Miata, it was using oil significantly and there was only a small leak at the valve cover that I could find. I wasn't leaving plumes of smoke while driving and couldn't smell oil burning and remembered something like if the PCV valve is clogged up or malfunctioning excessive oil consumption may occur. Checked the valve, which seemed fine and sprayed some carb cleaner in it and reinstalled. Oil consumption continued, I replaced the valve cover, spark plugs (to get a fresh set to look at and try to "read"). No change. Rechecked the PVC system and replaced the valve and a hose that I discovered was cracked and my oil consumption issue went away. I think the hose was probably blocked, but didn't actually check. Spent more on the plugs and valve cover gasket than the PCV valve and hose...
Weird, I've only seen OCI as Oil Change Interval.
Check that dipstick weekly and change the PCV. Hopefully you didn't lunch a bearing or anything from oil starvation.
Knurled wrote:
Every time you put fuel in it, check the oil.
1 quart in 750 miles is four quarts in 3000, which is not out of line with modern low-tension everything.
1/2 quart low should not cause any oil light to come on. A lot of newer cars have a 2 quart range on the dipstick, and oil level sensors usually come on much lower than that.
This is unacceptable. It was certainly unacceptable to whoever sued Audi for excess oil consumption & prompted the warranty claim program. We got new rings & pistons under warranty in the '11 A4 that used nowhere near that amount of oil.
In reply to Dashpot:
Sounds like it but its true, our 08 honda uses that much and Honda says its an acceptable range right in the manual. Meanwhile our 500k miles worth of two ancient volvos dont use any oil between changes
Wow, that's normal? When my wagon was losing that much oil, it was smoking on startup quite badly, and I ended up rebuilding the engine. I didn't realize modern engines just did that.
1kris06 wrote:
BTW, car is an 04 mazda6 V6 mtx @134k
I would almost guarantee it's your PCV hose. I had the exact same problem - sudden and inexplicable oil consumption - on an '04 Mazda6 v6 mtx wagon. I was braced for the worst but found the PCV hose on top of the engine was collapsed and leaking. Here's a pic of the hose location underhood:
At the end of it is your PCV valve. The valve is a twist-in/twist-out thing and it's really tough to get a tool on it. The thing that saved me was using a basin wrench - yes, the tool used to work on the feed lines to a faucet. It was perfect for the job.
Replace your valve and the PCV hose and you'll probably see your oil consumption go away. The new hose is upgraded and you'll probably not have an issue with it in the future. Your dealer should have known about this, so it's possible it's something else but likely that whoever looked at the car just didn't think about it.
Simple way to check the PCV system. With engine idling, remove the oil filler cap. Place the palm of your hand over the opening. the system should be trying to suck your hand into the engine.
Back when NYS inspections started we had a little device with a little ball in it. Placed over the opening, if vacuum existed the ball went all the way to "good".
Most oil lights are for pressure not level.
My Fiesta will use app. one pint of oil in 10k miles.
Robbie
UltraDork
7/7/16 9:31 a.m.
Knurled wrote:
1 quart in 750 miles is four quarts in 3000, which is not out of line with modern low-tension everything.
say WHAT?!?
That is a RIDICULOUS amount of consumption for something built in the last 30 years. Sure the dealership and the manufacturer might be telling you it is 'within acceptable limits' but I'm telling you I would not accept that.
I change my oil in my DD cars 2x per year, spring and fall. That sometimes means 2500 miles and sometimes 7500. Even my 190k mile honda v6 is never more than 1/2 quart low.
Also, I don't check my oil every time I fill up with gas, and I don't expect the vast majority of car owning population to either. what is this? 1953?
I regularly check my oil...Without fail...At each and every oil change...Which on my Fit has been working out to every 11k miles or so. In that time it always uses next to no oil. Although, if my Fit were 4 quarts low, it would be empty.
Regardless of what line of BS the manufacturers/dealers feed the public to reduce warranty claims on the engines that get past (are let through) their QA with unfavorable tolerance stackups, based on all of my experiences I refuse to acknowledge having to add any oil during the recommended change interval as 'normal' on any modern appliance. Nor losing more than 1 quart in that time as even being 'acceptable'.
I'd probably give the PCV thing a shot, and monitor it closely myself after that. Then if the consumption continues, give the preferred shop a shot at it. On an 10 year old car, I don't know that a dealership really has any advantage if you've already got a knowledgeable/trusted shop/mechanic.
Dashpot wrote:
Knurled wrote:
Every time you put fuel in it, check the oil.
1 quart in 750 miles is four quarts in 3000, which is not out of line with modern low-tension everything.
1/2 quart low should not cause any oil light to come on. A lot of newer cars have a 2 quart range on the dipstick, and oil level sensors usually come on much lower than that.
This is unacceptable. It was certainly unacceptable to whoever sued Audi for excess oil consumption & prompted the warranty claim program. We got new rings & pistons under warranty in the '11 A4 that used nowhere near that amount of oil.
Unacceptable is a range. People with new Accords were whining that their car was using a quart of oil in 5000mi. GM wasn't addressing Z06 oil consumption issues unless it was less than 200mi per quart of loss...
Robbie wrote:
Knurled wrote:
1 quart in 750 miles is four quarts in 3000, which is not out of line with modern low-tension everything.
say WHAT?!?
That is a RIDICULOUS amount of consumption for something built in the last 30 years. Sure the dealership and the manufacturer might be telling you it is 'within acceptable limits' but I'm telling you I would not accept that.
That is the new normal. Super low-tension rings and seals mean that oil consumption is a fact of life, and they are less tolerant of carbon in the ring grooves, which will also make oil consumption skyrocket.
Super tight sealing means more friction which means lower economy and less power.
Wait until you find out what the new normal is for A/C. 30 degrees of temperature change, so in Arizona in the summer it might be 90 degrees in the car.
Interestingly enough, we've found that switching from synthetic to non-synthetic oil will stop a mild oil burning condition. Go back to synthetic at the next change, it will stay okay for a couple more services.
In reply to Knurled:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
"our data shows that owners of 98 percent of 2010 to 2014 cars did not have to add oil between changes. "
I'd hardly call 2% "the new normal". And it would seem that if you pick your appliance wisely, the chances of getting one with a shoddily designed/manufactured engine diminishes greatly beyond that. Reducing friction is not an excuse for high oil consumption, especially when pushing the reduced maintenance requirements from extended change intervals. I would also think that if such high consumption actually did become 'normal', the EPA might start having something to say about it too.
From a manufacturer's point of view, I'd think oil consumption is only a problem when it starts affecting catalyst life.
Honda still follows the 1-qt per 1000 miles as "normal consumption" and is quite typical on manual trans cars. It was not uncommon to see the TSX 2.4 come in with the oil light on at 4500 miles because it was 4 qts low. Honda didn't address the problem until they were in the 200 mile/qt range.
I agree, that is completely unacceptable. Hell, I can burn a half quart in almost 11k miles on the 08 Rio and still knock down 4mpg higher than the window sticker says it should get at extra legal highway speeds.
Driven5 wrote:
In reply to Knurled:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
"our data shows that owners of 98 percent of 2010 to 2014 cars did not have to add oil between changes. "
I think that could also be continued to say, "Of the 98% who did not add oil between oil changes, 75% of those had never checked the oil, and did not have a clue how much oil was in the engine."
To the OP, if you ran it 4 liters down, its going to burn oil until it spins a rod bearing and destroys the engine the rest of the way.
We don't do a ton of engine changes at my shop, but the predominant manufacturer of the ones we do is Honda, almost always Civics, almost always driven by a young person, and absolutely always with an extremely spotty maintenance record. We did one once that had was on its third oil change at 96,000 km...
Streetwiseguy wrote:
I think that could also be continued to say, "Of the 98% who did not add oil between oil changes, 75% of those had never checked the oil, and did not have a clue how much oil was in the engine."
To the OP, if you ran it 4 liters down, its going to burn oil until it spins a rod bearing and destroys the engine the rest of the way.
We don't do a ton of engine changes at my shop, but the predominant manufacturer of the ones we do is Honda, almost always Civics, almost always driven by a young person, and absolutely always with an extremely spotty maintenance record. We did one once that had was on its third oil change at 96,000 km...
Well it was 4 quarts and not 4 liters to be fair.
So after 200 miles of driving I lost ~ 1/8th qt of oil, roughly 1qt per 1k miles according to the dealership. I plan on changing the pcv and plugs shortly. I'll monitor my oil every 500 miles or so, after 3k miles, if I'm still losing the same amount of oil, what would be the next things to look at/spend $$$ on?
