NASA Question

(also posted on miata.net)

NASA only runs one event per year at my local track, Hallett. How will I ever be able to move up through their ranks to HPDE 4/TT?

I've run with Hallett's HST (High Speed Touring) group 3 different days, but those of you who have been there know it's MUCH, MUCH more laid back than what I suspect NASA is like. I've also done sportbike track days at Hallett (5-6 years ago).

Although on my third HST day, the last session of the day the let me out with A group instead of B group, I'm not in anyway intimating that I currently posses the HPDE 4/TT skill level.

I will be attending many more days, and the idea of eventually being able to run TT at different tracks is kind of appealing (this would be 1-2 years away).

I see on their web site that they will recognize if you have other track experience, but at Hallett, their is absolutely no passing in the turns during HST events...........so if I need that skill to move up their ranks, but can't get at my own events???

Seems like the best group to ask would be your local NASA organizers. After all, it's their playground and their rules. Doesn't really matter what we think

Although I suspect the answer would involve some travel. You're closer to the big bunch of tracks around Dallas than I am to anything!

^True, just thought someone may have been in a similar situation before!

one way, of course, is to run on more than just that track ... check your NASA areas schedule and see which ones you can get to ... other than that be sure to note your track experience with other clubs and talk to the chief of check rides when you're doing a NASA event .. ask for check ride to the next level and have that person consider you other track time and talk about more than one class jump after your check ride.... if you've been getting enough track time and it shows in your situational awareness, car control, etc ...

I know I'm lazy, but that's the thing. Hallett is literally 30 miles from my driveway. With events all the time. I think just in March/April/May, there is at least 10 days for me to attend if I can scrounge up enough cash.

Having to pack up the car, tools, etc and trek it 4 hours north/south, isn't appealing.

Especially when the car doesn't have a top at all.

I know I'm lazy, but that's the thing. Hallett is literally 30 miles from my driveway. With events all the time. I think just in March/April/May, there is at least 10 days for me to attend if I can scrounge up enough cash.

Having to pack up the car, tools, etc and trek it 4 hours north/south, isn't appealing. If I have to eventually, I will.

Especially when the car doesn't have a top at all.

If you only run at Hallett and NASA only goes there once a year it may take you awhile to get to HPDE4/TT.

However, if you run with a bunch of different organizations at Hallett, you can build your driving resume, present that to the NASA chief driving instructor and see if they'll place you in HPDE3 for Saturday. If you do well in HPDE 3 that day, you can ask for a check ride to HPDE4/TT on Sunday.

Can't speak for your NASA region. Here you might start out HPDE 1 or 2, with an instructor - instructor can recommend bumping you up a group if he's comfortable with what he sees. Definitely consider travelling a little for more seat time.

So, you don't want to drive anywhere else because Hallett is super-convenient (and a pretty fun track to boot). But you want to move up the ranks in NASA so you can drive other tracks. I'm confused

I think there's also the point of what you skill level is. If you exhibit a level of proficiency at what you are doing, you will move through the ranks. Meaning, if you've run that track with numerous other groups and can show you have good car control, situational awareness, etc the number of times you run with NASA will be less significant.

What is your end goal here? Simply to move into TT?

Having gone from HPDE 1 to W2W racing, I don't understand people's desire to "get through" quickly to running solo. There's so much you can learn from different instructors. Now that I'm racing, I'm paying huge dollars to pro coaches to gain incremental improvements. Sponge up those instructed sessions and don't be in such a hurry to go solo.

It confuses me as well when people are always pushing for the next step up and wanting that check ride to the next group. I took several years getting from HPDE1 to HPDE3 and I spent time in my car with an instructor at every track we frequesnt until I got comfortable with the track. I soaked up everything those guysand gals would tell me. I spent many years in HPDE3 before finally stepping up to HPDE4 and I still find myself wishing for an instructor sometimes to help me get that last little bit out of a corner. I didn't drive every event I could nor did I drive more than few events a year. It was a money thing for me. If you really want to me solo at Hallet most of the time NASA will recongnize your experience running with other groups and let you moive up to a solo group at that track after a check ride. With very very few exceptions everyone starts in HPDE1 with an instructor who can decide if you are ready to be solo based on experience. Some do so quickly some take a the long way round.

One thing to keep in mind spending a bunch of time at one track and getting solo'd there does not mean you are ready to be solo at other tracks. Instructors are a godsend when it comes to learning a new track.

^It's not about being in a hurry, it's about planning and then undertaking the necessary steps to execute the plan.

I know it's REALLY hard to read an entire post on the internet when you're itching to be condescending..........I'll reiterate, I'm not in a hurry, I'm guessing you skipped the part where I said 1-2 years......as an EVENTUAL goal.

I'm not suggesting that I don't have anything learn, or that I'm too good for an instructor, or anything of that nature. So far I've ridden/driven (split session) or had an instructor with me in 33% of my sessions.

Again, if you'll actually read the first post, the point was how CAN I actually move up the NASA HPDE classes, when they do so few events here.

Keith Tanner wrote: So, you don't want to drive anywhere else because Hallett is super-convenient (and a pretty fun track to boot). But you want to move up the ranks in NASA so you can drive other tracks. I'm confused

I'm just not quite in the position for the undertaking to go to long-tracks.

Driving 600+ miles roundtrip on R888s with no top seems like a bad idea.

Sounds like you live in a geographically restrictive area for attainting your goals as quick as you'd like. Since you also said your lazy(traveling?) I would really suggest or hopefully you already did, that you get to know your NASA region stewards/directors, show them your enthusiasm - past experience and probably volunteer etc. Its the only hope of moving up any faster!

Sorry, I was not intending to sound condescending, I misunderstood the interest in moving up quicker vs. the number of track days offered at your prefered track with NASA. By the time I read the whole list of posts I had lost track of your initial intent and questions. I guess the point I was trying for, and failed to make, was that you can use experience with other groups to move up through the ranks at NASA. You just might have to get alot of check rides along the way.

I applaud your willingness to take your time it is by far the best way in my experience to get the most out of your track time. I am a big fan of the HPDE system as it ensures that people have the neccesary skill set in place before undertaking the next step.

One issue you mentioned about passing in corners and getting that experience in preparation for NASA HPDE 3 and open passing. That is one of the big steps that every driver takes with NASA going from the solo group with limited passing to the group with open passing with a point by group. My best analogy is the first time you swim into the deep end of the pool, it takes time to get comfortable with and that is the primary reason for the required point. By requiring a point by it gives the leading driver (you) the option of not allowing a pass you are not comfortable with until you become more comfortable with the idea of being passed in a corner. It usually doesn't take long for a new HPDE3 driver to get the hang of getting passed in corners.

Thank you, I realize I came off a bit snarky.

As for passing in the corners, we have a small dedicated group at our track regularly and as you know, it's pretty easy to figure out who does and doesn't have a handle of what's going on.

I don't think it would bother me, just not used to it. I am used to doing things like hounding the Viper on slicks on the backside of the track then getting smoked down the straights.

I know I have a ton to learn, I just want to learn it more quickly, does that make sense? Not that I want to skip the process. :)

z31maniac wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: So, you don't want to drive anywhere else because Hallett is super-convenient (and a pretty fun track to boot). But you want to move up the ranks in NASA so you can drive other tracks. I'm confused

I'm just not quite in the position for the undertaking to go to long-tracks. Driving 600+ miles roundtrip on R888s with no top seems like a bad idea.

Ahh, I drove 1000 miles home from the first Miatas at MRLS event in the rally car on worn RA1s :). Seriously, it's not that huge a problem. Get a hardtop and leave it in the pits. A covered trailer sure is a nice luxury in those situations of course, it depends on how badly you want it. Pretty badly, sometimes!!!

Uh, Cresson's not 600 miles and NASA runs there. I've run with them several times. Actually got my racing license at Cresson.

carguy123 wrote: Uh, Cresson's not 600 miles and NASA runs there. I've run with them several times. Actually got my racing license at Cresson.

You're right, it's actually 650 miles roundtrip from my house.

Keith Tanner wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: So, you don't want to drive anywhere else because Hallett is super-convenient (and a pretty fun track to boot). But you want to move up the ranks in NASA so you can drive other tracks. I'm confused

I'm just not quite in the position for the undertaking to go to long-tracks. Driving 600+ miles roundtrip on R888s with no top seems like a bad idea.

Ahh, I drove 1000 miles home from the first Miatas at MRLS event in the rally car on worn RA1s :). Seriously, it's not that huge a problem. Get a hardtop and leave it in the pits. A covered trailer sure is a nice luxury in those situations of course, it depends on how badly you want it. Pretty badly, sometimes!!!

Oh I want to eventually, just not quite ready for it. Just trying to find a hardtop anywhere close is nearly impossible.

If you are at the level of hpde4 or TT all you need is a check ride. It could be your first NASA event. I know plenty of people who started in hpde 4 who weren't even that experienced. Depends on the region though.