It's hard to deny we're living in a golden age of performance when people grouse about a lack of power in a car which goes 0-60 in 5.8 seconds
It's hard to deny we're living in a golden age of performance when people grouse about a lack of power in a car which goes 0-60 in 5.8 seconds
I know what good long-tube headers can do - the exhaust system for the Global Cup car for the ND has picked up 15 rwhp when tested by the race teams (and not by marketers) with no tuning changes. Figure 10 rwhp when a cat is installed. Heck, I'm the guy who put 10' of tubing into his primaries a few years back...
Our dyno is currently broken, but we'll be chasing power as soon as that's fixed again. Goodwin can enjoy his time in the sun 
Keith Tanner wrote: It's a $25,000 MSRP car, actually... In 1990, you could buy a Mustang GT for about $1000 more than a Miata. And here we are in 2015, the Mustang GT is now $7k more than a Miata. Let's bitch about that instead.
It's only a $25,000 car ($26K with destination) if you opt out of a limited slip diff, which I would really want. No doubt though, the $33,300 starting price for a V8 Mustang seems greedy when the V6 starts under $25K.
I have a question for Keith.
Is there anyway, other than forced induction or spray, to get a daily driver ND to ~200hp?
Well, GoodWin Racing is claiming 40whp with their tune and header/mid pipe combo.
As far as I know, it hasn't been verified by a 3rd party, and still NO ONE will answer me if the stock fuel system has the headroom for corn juice.
If their header is really picking up 40whp on 91 oct with a tune, I would suspect their header with E85 would add another 10-15whp which would get you very close.
makes me wonder when we'll see the fiat to ND swaps start.
BBR in the UK Is also claiming that they can get 205bhp, but their package includes a pair of cams as well as intake, exhaust header and tune. They're advertising 214 when the above is paired with their exhaust.
I'm looking forward to what FM is cooking up 
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In reply to bluej:
I think those are only worthwhile when swapping in the 1.8 that they have in the rally car. The 1.4 has some potential but only when you go from laaaaaaag to laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.
BoxheadTim wrote: BBR in the UK Is also claiming that they can get 205bhp, but their package includes a pair of cams as well as intake, exhaust header and tune. They're advertising 214 when the above is paired with their exhaust. I'm looking forward to what FM is cooking up
I wonder what the power curve looks like
I don't mind the headers and cams, but the sheet metal intake, I have never personally seen one outside of drag racing that ever really did what was advertised.
z31maniac wrote: Well, GoodWin Racing is claiming 40whp with their tune and header/mid pipe combo. As far as I know, it hasn't been verified by a 3rd party, and still NO ONE will answer me if the stock fuel system has the headroom for corn juice. If their header is really picking up 40whp on 91 oct with a tune, I would suspect their header with E85 would add another 10-15whp which would get you very close.
that is close enough for government work!
So looking at their dyno charts the stock ND is making 140 at the wheels (give or take a HP). that gives the unit an about a 10% driveline loss (assuming the factory 155 is honest and applicable, and driveline loss is one of the things the SkyActive system was supposed to mitigate) So that means the exhaust is giving about 45 hp. So this engine at the flywheel is around 200 hp.
Which is where I think this car should be.
Yeah, if I could just get confirmation on the header/tune gains being real and someone to make a flex fuel kit for it.
It would be a no brainer I'd pick one up over the winter.
Friends got the Goodwin header and tune and the butt dyno was not showing 40hp. Obviously this is a completely unscientific viewpoint, but they are national level autocrossers so they run the car hard.
There's been some indication that Goodwin's numbers are not being reproduced by third parties. There are lots of ways to spoof the ND numbers, and you really have to put some miles on a tune before the ECU settles in.
The Skyactiv drivetrain does seem to be very efficient, more so that the older cars. Stock power readings are a lot closer to flywheel hp than older cars. Mazda did a good job on that. Also, remember that drivetrain losses are closer to a fixed amount than a percentage. They're a bit of both, but it's mostly fixed.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
Super-special fuel?
I remember the article comparing the differences in fuel and how you could tune.
I'm not the tuner here, so I forget the details. But I think there are a couple of things you can do that will bump up the power for a run or two until the ECU adapts. The car will definitely respond to fuel changes.
The sophistication of modern cars makes it really hard to get properly representative dyno numbers - and the ND is the first Miata that could be considered a modern car.
Harvey wrote: My desire for power is why I won't get one right now. I had an NA for many years and they are fun to drive at the limit, but I want something more that doesn't require an additional outlay of another $5k to get to a point where it has power. For $35k I can get a barely used C6 Z06 (I know, I know, different cars, used vs new). I might get one later on though when prices are lower and/or used. I'm just not at the right place to buy new. I don't think the price is unfair though, it's reasonable for what you get, I just see my money going elsewhere.
Re-reading this thread, turns out this is exactly what you did (the Z06 comment)! 
Keith Tanner wrote: There's been some indication that Goodwin's numbers are not being reproduced by third parties. There are lots of ways to spoof the ND numbers, and you really have to put some miles on a tune before the ECU settles in. The Skyactiv drivetrain does seem to be very efficient, more so that the older cars. Stock power readings are a lot closer to flywheel hp than older cars. Mazda did a good job on that. Also, remember that drivetrain losses are closer to a fixed amount than a percentage. They're a bit of both, but it's mostly fixed.
Yep, I know on the BRZ it takes approx 1/4 tank of gas before the tune really gets the IAM, STFT, LTFT to the desired targets of the tune once you flash a new one to the ECU.
I'd be curious to see how far off the numbers are that people are getting.
Keith Tanner wrote: Yup. It's no more expensive than it's ever been.
Then can we bitch about $35k being the new $15k? 
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