Need help identifying old Ford V8 small block/Windsor

I need help identifying a Ford V8.

It has 6 bolt valve covers, which according to the internet means it's a small block or Windsor. It has the smaller size spark plug size that came around after 1973, I think...Here's what (little) I know:

My father in-law Marv's dad bought him this truck as a wedding gift, brand new in 1971. It's an F100 and originally came with a 302 according to the dataplate. Somewhere along the years (early 80s?), Marv "blew the engine" and swapped in a junkyard motor. He couldn't remember what engine it was that he put in, but he seems to think it might be a smaller engine than the 302.

My in-laws are now in their 80s and Marv's suffering some cognitive memory loss. The truck hasn't been on the road in about 12 years, and neglected maintenance finally sidelined it. We helped them move into a new house about 6 months ago, and after towing the old pickup to their new place that included a spacious shop, I've been picking away at getting it roadworthy again. The brakes were totally shot and required replacement of all shoes, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, hoses, a few sections of rigid tube, etc. With some fresh gas, the engine runs pretty well, but I want to do some basic tuneup items: cap, rotor, points, plugs. This is why I need to know what engine I have, because I believe these parts changed over the years. The spark plugs alone are not what I should have in the original 302.

My in-laws have given me the truck and I just want to be able to take them both out for a drive every now and then. Marv's memory loss is such that he can't remember what he said to you two minutes ago, but so many of the memories he can access are closely tied to this truck, Old Betsy. He's not capable of providing much help on the truck, but I do my best to narrate what I'm doing and include him in the process. It's amazing to see how engaged he is when we're in the shop poking around on this project. Help me get her cleaned up and roadworthy so Marv can enjoy some of his best memories. Here it is when we towed it to the new home a few months back: 

Last weekend I drove it for the first time in at least 12 years. Pulled down to the house for a bath. 
 

TLDR: help me identify this engine: where do I look for casting numbers? Are there other identifiers or tells that can at least tell me what tuneup parts I need to order?

You are doing good; thumbs up!

As far as identifying the engine goes, I am not much help and it may not really matter all that much in the search for replacement tune-up stuff. It runs, so whatever it is, works. Pull part numbers off the plugs, rifle thru a few different years of listings on RockAuto and match the current cap and rotor to pics. The stuff on the outside of the engine may not match any single specific year, as parts get interchanged thru years of "making stuff work."

I have an old Ford small block book on the shelf I would lend you if it is worth shipping it.

An old trick I learned in my 5.0L Mustang days was to look at the deck height of the block.

If the head to block junction (head gasket) is right above the water pump, it's a 302. If the head/block junction is an inch above the water pump, you've got yourself a 351. It was vital information when someone would tell you it was a stock 5.0L but you could see the taller deck block. You knew he was sandbagging you.

I went off to the Googles to make sure my memory was correct.

Well the engine seems to have points and a condenser ignition system as I don't see a Dura Spark set up under the hood.  My guess is that the engine was sourced from a Ford of the same or similar vintage. It could be a 289 or 302 but it doesn't look like a 351 but use "Cousin Eddie's" info to confirm that.  As for parts to tune it up.  Confirm that it has points and from that point it should be easy as all 289/302 ignition stuff was the same. I'd just get what was spec for 1971. 

IF you want to improve it you can convert to the Dura Spark II Ign. system.  You'd need a new Dist., a correct Ign. Module, a number of electrical connectors specific to the Dura Spark system, and depending on the type of dist. cap you get new plug wires. There are small cap and large cap versions. The large cap version uses an adaptor.  There are many write up on the net on how to do a conversion.  The engine will start easier, run smoother, and should get better MPG's.

I recently did such a conversion to a 1974 Capri 2.8L V6 which had a German Bosch point dist. I used parts that would have been stock on the later version of this engine (1976-1979) installed in Mustangs & Pintos.

That sure looks like like a 351. They have a few pictures on Summit to help visualize what Cousin Eddie is referring to. 

https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5050/~/whats-the-difference-between-a-302-and-a-351w%3F

Windsor plugs should be the same from mid-1960s up through the mid-1970s between cars and trucks.  Things start to diverge in 1973 or maybe 1974. The later plugs are smaller. I would just pull one and check the number.

Start with the casting number near the pan rail. That will get you closer to an answer.

Great, thanks for all the tips! I'll use the advice above to visually determine if it is a 302 or a 351. I'm betting it's a smaller engine... Marv was never the put-in-a-bigger-engine sort, and part of me hopes it's one of the smaller V8s. I like the idea of maybe converting to a Holley 2 barrel Sniper and making it a regular driver around town in full survivor paint.  

Tester, it's definitely running the smaller plugs of the post '74 era. 

Ranger, casting number is near the pan rail: do you know which side? It's hard to see much of anything with all the ancillaries in the way. 

This is a long shot but check the tag under one of the coil hold-down bolts. If the coil came with the replacement engine or a conscientious mechanic brought the tag over, it should give you the info you need. I believe the only modern "windsor" engine smaller than a 302 was the 255. 

In reply to Mezzanine :

Should be right by the starter. Crawl under and take a look.

Can't really tell from the pictures, but it looks like a short deck, so 221, 255, 260, 289, 302 would be the options.  Highly doubt its the first three since they are older than dirt or not common.  The 221 and 260 were only used in 63-64, and the 255 was only in 1980-82 Fox-type bodies; mustang, Zephyr, Fairmont, Tbird, etc.

So we can assume 289 or 302.  Unfortunately, the points ignition doesn't tell us much.  If someone bought a junkyard engine, they could have swapped parts over to complete it.

Casting number is on the passenger side of the block.  It will start with C, D, E, or F, corresponding to the decade; 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, respectively.  The second number is the year, so D5 would be 75.  The third digit will be the model designation.  A= generic full size, D=Maverick/Falcon, Z= Mustang, etc.  Fourth digit will be an E which just denotes that it is an Engine part.  Little tidbit... if that third character is a Z, it is a Ford Service part, which means it might have been a replacement.  For instance, Ford stopped offering the 289 sometime in 1965, but they continued to make some for warranties, replacement parts, etc.  They would likely say something like C7AZ, indicating it was a 67 casting, generic full-size, service part.

After the hyphen, it will probably be a number between 6000-6900 which is a code for what the block was cast to be (not necessarily what it is).  There may be a letter in the middle to confuse you.  Since the short Windsor was pretty much the same over the years, who know what it could have been stuffed with in terms of crank, pistons, etc.

The very last character will tell you what the block was CAST as, but like many other things, it isn't a sure ID.  The casting number will basically tell you that it was cast as a 4" bore and an 8.206" deck height, and what group of vehicles it was intended for, but just because you have a 302 block doesn't mean that Ford assembled it as a 302.

If you're really lucky, there is a stamped aluminum tab bolted on under the coil mounting bolt.  If it's there, not corroded to heck, or not fabricated (in the case of liars trying to sell an HO engine), it will tell you the assembly date, displacement, and plant.

Block casting numbers are found on the passenger side near the oil pan rail.

TheMagicRatchet said:

This is a long shot but check the tag under one of the coil hold-down bolts. If the coil came with the replacement engine or a conscientious mechanic brought the tag over, it should give you the info you need. I believe the only modern "windsor" engine smaller than a 302 was the 255. 

 

Correct; 1980-82 intermediate cars got these in response to the CAFE/EPA regs of the time.

Find your casting number and go here to find more

Definitely looks like a 289 or 302 to me. Earlier windsors (221 and 260) aside from being uncommon also use the older 5 bolt bellhousing pattern.  Unlikely the truck transmission was replaced with an earlier one, so I’m guessing you have the later 6 bolt pattern. 

Hard to make out the water pump to deck spacing but this does not look like a 351 to me.  Tall deck Windsors have a wider “valley” to fill, so the intake is also wider. This looks like a narrow intake from what I can see, similar to what I have in sitting in the carport.

As to whether it’s a 289 or 302, you’ll have to run the numbers to be sure. My money is on a 302, but you do sometimes see older 289s used in a later truck like this (post 67) as a cheap replacement motor way back in the day.

EDIT: forgot to say it, but also good on you for getting that old survivor on the road again. 100  gearhead karma points to you! 

I just wanted to say, Mezzanine, I think it is terrific what you are doing with the truck. And I am so impressed with the sharing of knowledge on this forum!

It is obviously an 8.2 deck engine (aka not a 351W) because the thermostat bolts cannot be accessed with a socket and extension, the water pump overlaps it for access.

That is before looking at it and noting the choke assembly sticks out over the valve cover because the engine is so narrow.

IMO I'd look at the bellhousing pattern and see if it is a 5 bolt (221/260/early 289) or 6 bolt (late 289, 302).  Beyond that it is pretty academic unless you were buying internal engine parts, which you wouldn't want to do until you had it out and opened up anyway.  It is most likely NOT a 5 bolt engine because that would require a different transmission... 5 bolt bellhousings had a different trans pattern too!

Valve covers are easy to swap and not a great identifier, but they started stamping the steel covers with "Power by Ford" in 1968, so your valve covers are no older than that.

TLDR: help me identify this engine: where do I look for casting numbers? Are there other identifiers or tells that can at least tell me what tuneup parts I need to order? 

Seems like others here have addressed IDing the engine pretty well in this thread, but the tuneup is more a function of the carb and ignition system you have. 

Without knowing your distributor number (which is on the back side of the distributor near the intake manifold) what I see in your pictures looks like a dual vacuum advance points and condenser ignition. This is pretty common from 1968 to the mid 70’s before Ford switched to Duraspark, and correct for a truck of that era. It’s possible the original distributor was used again with the replacement motor.

Parts for these are common, so I’d just got to the local partshaus and ask for a tuneup kit for your year/make/model of truck (302 engine size) and make sure they are cool with returns if it does not fit for some reason. There were not a ton of changes during this period so my bet is they will work like a charm.

Also grab new plugs and wires while you are down there. Take an old plug with you so you are sure to get the right size replacement. A spray can of carb cleaner is a good idea too, if you have not given yours a good spray down already

Once you get the new parts in and set your gap for points, this is a good guide to follow for setting initial timing and idle:

Mustang Project- How to set timing

The example in that guide is earlier (65/66) but same principles apply and TBH what you have is pretty much the same except the smog-era dual advance. You can tune without a timing light and vac gauge but if you have both of those you can get a little more precise if you like. I did my tuneup by ear for many years using this guide and it worked like a charm.

If you’re running rough after that it’s time to start looking at your carb, but assuming that is decent (Autolite 2bbl carbs are dead simple and can probably run on dog water) this is all you will need to do, and you can get back to driving and enjoying this truck you rescued.

Marv's memory loss is such that he can't remember what he said to you two minutes ago, but so many of the memories he can access are closely tied to this truck, Old Betsy. He's not capable of providing much help on the truck, but I do my best to narrate what I'm doing and include him in the process. It's amazing to see how engaged he is when we're in the shop poking around on this project. Help me get her cleaned up and roadworthy so Marv can enjoy some of his best memories.

I also help take care of older in-laws and my father-in-law Joe also has memory issues, so I’m in a similar situation.  Joe doesn’t have his old cars anymore (he had a string of 60s Corvettes) but he definitely gets a kick out of me working on my old wagon. He’s always game to hop in for a ride, and it reminds him of a lot of good times.

Can’t say this enough but good on you for getting Old Betsy on the road.  I bet it gives Marv a real good feeling to see it rolling again and be able to take a ride. Being able to do that for someone you love is worth more than gold!

I finally got to go over and visit Old Betsy. A quick visual confirmation eliminated the possibility of a 351. The water pump boss is level with the cylinder head for sure, though it's hard to see in this pic. 
 

After that, I crawled under the truck for a look at the casting number. Well, they definitely want you to work for those casting numbers. They're behind the starter and you have a very narrow aperture to see them. 
 

Pretty sure it says "D4DE 6016 BA", which according to this site it should be a 1974 302! At least I think so. 

Marv remembered that some of his friends at the shipyard where he worked helped him source the engine, so no idea if it actually came from a junkyard. Bottom line, I'm pleased to report that he swapped for an in-kind engine. 
 

Betsy will likely get a build thread someday, but I'll keep you all posted here in the meantime. 
 

Thank you all so much for the help and for the kind words. It feels pretty great to be able to apply my gear head skills in this way and to share it with my father in law.

The quick and dirty way to look at short vs tall is the water pump bosses, but an even quicker way is just visually.

In you first picture, notice how the width of the carb is almost as wide as the distance between the valve covers?  On a 351, a 14" air cleaner almost fits between the valve covers.

Fords always were challenging to identify.  Dad had a ‘65 F100 stepside that was pretty ballzy.  All the hang-arounds at the filling station he owned said it was a 390.  When it came time to tear it down, it was found to be a 352.