Need Help Timing a '07 Fusion 2.3L

So does anyone have the procedure for putting on a timing chain on an '07 Fusion with a 2.3l? We've got one here are the shop that was wrecked and we had to put a timing cover on it(because it was broken in the wreck). Well once we got the crank pulley off we realized that it doesn't have a key way, and neither does the timing gear. So basically you have to lock the crankshaft in place, camshaft in place, and crank pulley in place (because it has the reluctor ring on it) and all in the correct places, before you torque the pulley bolt down, or else they will all just spin on the nose of the crank shaft. Pretty ridiculous design if you ask me.

! I really want to see pictures of this problem! Very interesting, and at the same time very depressing for someone who works on cars...

Yep, the first guys who tried to put a UDP on a 2.3 Duratec in a Focus found this out the hard way.

Corey: You might check the Duratec Forum on FocalJet. I haven't worked on one but I know that setting the timing has been a topic of discussion there before.

It kinda makes sense from a mass manufacturing standpoint; you take out the element of machining tolerances for keyways and can get the vast majority of engines much more closely timed, good for emissions. But a major PITA to work on, as you've discovered.

Did a quick search on FJ. According to this thread you will need the timing pin, the cam position bar, and a blot that screws in to hold some of the pulleys in place.

Evidently you are supposed to put the bolt in before you take the crank pulley off. Don't know much more, the Zetec only uses the timing pin and cam bar.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/help-i-need-a-photo-of-a-crankshaft-pulley/4527/page1/

Looks like you can get it aligned with a flat file and a 1/2 x 6" extension.

Jensenman wrote: It kinda makes sense from a mass manufacturing standpoint; you take out the element of machining tolerances for keyways and can get the vast majority of engines much more closely timed, good for emissions. But a major PITA to work on, as you've discovered.

And it's not the only engine out there without any key way for this exact reason.

Bear in mind, this engine isn't ever intended to be opened up. Ever.

E-

alfadriver wrote: Bear in mind, this engine isn't ever intended to be opened up. Ever. E-

I would like the address of the genius that decided that was an acceptable parameter. Did the team really expect that the car would NEVER be in an accident and NEVER have a minor internal failure like a broken valvespring or even GASP a head gasket?

I am very concerned about this.

John Brown wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Bear in mind, this engine isn't ever intended to be opened up. Ever. E-

I would like the address of the genius that decided that was an acceptable parameter. Did the team really expect that the car would NEVER be in an accident and NEVER have a minor internal failure like a broken valvespring or even GASP a head gasket? I am very concerned about this.

any actuaries on this board? because at some point the odds of the failure make the lack of serviceability worth the cost of full-engine replacement.

they saved at least two machining operations plus some assembly labor. if the numbers show the failure occuring on 1 in 100,000 engines, and they saved $100,000 in tooling (assume no assembly cost save), and it costs $10k to replace a complete engine, then the decision saves them money until they build one million engines.

i haven't had a flat tire on the road since about 1992. so why do i carry a spare?

Since the engine is used in almost every Ford Line (Escape, Fusion, Focus, Ranger, etc) plus Mazda and Mercury... I am thinking that a million service parts has been eclipsed.

AngryCorvair wrote: i haven't had a flat tire on the road since about 1992. so why do i carry a spare?

You obvioiusly haven't met my wife..

she does a tire a year.

Running through Car-Part.com there seems to be a LOT of these engines in all chassis with broken timing covers as well!

Yep, there are two studs that are mounted into the timing cover, that bolt to a mount that bolts to the right frame rail. If they take a hit to the right front, it breaks those studs off. Kinda like the old Saturn S series, except for the whole lack of key way thing.

Oh, and where are my manners. Thanks for all the help so far!

I actually wrote the procedure for that engine. You will need some special tools for sure. I might be able to get you the procedure though. Shoot me your e-mail address and I think I can get you a PDF.

John Brown wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Bear in mind, this engine isn't ever intended to be opened up. Ever. E-

I would like the address of the genius that decided that was an acceptable parameter. Did the team really expect that the car would NEVER be in an accident and NEVER have a minor internal failure like a broken valvespring or even GASP a head gasket? I am very concerned about this.

Outside of an accident (where I would fully expect an engine replacement vs. a rebuild, since it would generally cost less), no, I would never expect to see a valve spring failure, or even less likely, a head gasket.

You would not believe the amount of abuse they are put through, and they are pretty much required to not have any major replacements up THROUGH 120k miles. The result of that requirement is very, very few failures where the engine needs to be opened up.

To add to Angry's cost structure, bear in mind swap TIME, too. Based on how these cars are designed, I bet it takes a LOT less time to do a full powertrain swap vs. changing a head gasket. Even still, there are procedures to line up the cams and sprokets, if you really think that's needed. I've seen it done where we do rebuilds. 16V- just find the right procedures, and you'll be good to go.

Still, the odds of a head gasket failure vs. something much more significant are much, much lower. Modern metal composite gaskets are amazing, as are the torque to yield head bolts, and the stiff block/heads.

Like I said, I bet there are LOT of engines out there w/o a key way in the cam.

Eric

Understood. Now walk over to the warranters office and explain to them that you cannot replace the $12.00 part that has failed, but you need instead to replace the $10,000 engine. Or better yet, explain to the insurance company that same scenario because of a relatively minor RF fender and rail repair now needs $10,000 in additions because the engine is not repairable.

Now we are totalling out two year old cars because the minor fender bender requires $15,000 worth of repair and the current value of the vehicle is only $13,000 and the use of used parts are forbidden under 3 years and 36k miles.

EDIT

The saving of a small amount of cost per unit may in turn create an increase in insureability of the actual car. If the cars cost more to insure than the similar priced/equipped/mpg'd alternative you WILL lose customers.

I don't see this as that big a deal. I have changed the cams in my Zetec twice now and helped some other folks do theirs.

If you have the cam alignment tool (or a big flat file) it is impossible to get them screwed up. The cams have off-center slots in the end opposite the gear, the tool slides into the slots on both cams at the same time. The tool won't go in unless the cams are aligned for TDC on #1.

The timing pin goes into a hole in the side of the block. Bring #1 up toward TDC, take the plug out and screw the pin in. Turn the crank until it hits the pin and you have #1 at TDC. I have used the old screwdriver in #1 method to find TDC but that doesnt hold it in place.

I haven't worked on a Duratec but my understanding is that there is one additional step. You have to use a small bolt to lock the crank sensor reluctor ring and the cam chain pulley together.

After seeing the warnings on here about things you must do when working on other cars I don't think this is any worse than some of them.

John Brown wrote: Understood. Now walk over to the warranters office and explain to them that you cannot replace the $12.00 part that has failed, but you need instead to replace the $10,000 engine.

I'm glad someone places such a high value on our vehicles.

Zetec Crate Engine

DrBoost wrote: I actually wrote the procedure for that engine. You will need some special tools for sure. I might be able to get you the procedure though. Shoot me your e-mail address and I think I can get you a PDF.

You have PM/email!

Hal wrote:

John Brown wrote: Understood. Now walk over to the warranters office and explain to them that you cannot replace the $12.00 part that has failed, but you need instead to replace the $10,000 engine.

I'm glad someone places such a high value on our vehicles. Zetec Crate Engine

Macintosh versus Golden delicious, nothing however when compared to the new sale price for a Touareg V10 TDi engine ($26,742.30).

16vCorey wrote:

DrBoost wrote: I actually wrote the procedure for that engine. You will need some special tools for sure. I might be able to get you the procedure though. Shoot me your e-mail address and I think I can get you a PDF.

You have PM/email!

I should be able to get you that procedure tomorrow. I'll tell you, actually timing the engine isn't very hard, writing the procedure was a pita!! There were no special tools developed. I remember calling the engineer and saying "Say, uh, how are we supposed to hold these cams in place? The hex's cast into the shaft are not really any metric or U.S. size." His reponse was "Why do you have to hold the cams still?" I wanted to say "if you have to ask, please turn in your credentials and get a job at Pep Boys" but I didn't. The whole procedure went like that. It's amazing how LITTLE automotive engineers know about cars.

John Brown wrote:

Hal wrote:

John Brown wrote: Understood. Now walk over to the warranters office and explain to them that you cannot replace the $12.00 part that has failed, but you need instead to replace the $10,000 engine.

I'm glad someone places such a high value on our vehicles. Zetec Crate Engine

Macintosh versus Golden delicious, nothing however when compared to the new sale price for a Touareg V10 TDi engine ($26,742.30).

Ha. Crossfire NA V6 long block $24,000.00. Found THAT out via an insurance claim for water ingestion.

Sale price my man, LIST is $35,656!

The "Weigh-a-ton"s W8 engine is $33,776 on sale for $25,331.80 I want two for the Mofocost.