Which option is faster? Which is more cost efficient?
Let's assume the car is already classed out of 200tw classes.
Which option is faster? Which is more cost efficient?
Let's assume the car is already classed out of 200tw classes.
Hoosiers 7 days a week and twice on sunday
I’ve had bad luck with takeoffs. Depending on familiarity with the car street tires may be better.
Are they A7s, R7s, or a roadrace slick? It's going to depend on how much they were used. It's also going to depend on how the car is set up.
codrus said:Are they A7s, R7s, or a roadrace slick? It's going to depend on how much they were used. It's also going to depend on how the car is set up.
I love having as much info as possible when thinking about something. So, could I ask you to explain what you know about each of those options? Also what things about a car setup are going to change which tire option is better?
Are you talking local autox? I know my local region runs a extra class for cars classed for Hoosiers but use 200 TW. It's really nice and a fun class to be in.
But it's it's strictly a question of which would be faster I'd say most likely the take offs.
In reply to 79rex :
Definitely a local autox in mind for this hypothetical situation. If I decided to go this route let's just say the car would be much much less prepared than its class front runners.
I've been running R7 and SM7 takeoffs for 2 years now. Our courses are typically very short 25-35 seconds. I am finally fed up with never getting them warm enough to work and am getting some A7's. It is usually pretty difficult to find A7 takeoffs.
One thing to consider... are you driving to autocross or trailering? If driving, the 200TW tire may be your better bet due to drastically less work at each event. If trailering it's more of a toss up.
depending on size you cant beat the price of take offs, I get R7/SM7 with about 5 runs on them for about $80-$100 the set. they are faster than my 200tw falkens especially if I have a co driver to warm them up. I can't fathom how fast new wide A7s would be. I drive to events and it gets annoying to change tires back and forth but for the money you cant beat them
A data point: last year I co drove a friends’ car. Fully prepped STR NC, summer event and plenty of heat. He and his wife drove it in the morning on fresh RE-71s and laid down respectable times. Then at lunch I bolted on a worn out set of A6s and ran the car in CSP. With a noob co driving the car with me to get heat in the tires and on a SHORT course (35 seconds of so) I was over a second faster than the cars’ owner.
(Also over 1.5 seconds faster than a friend in a borrowed C5 who nearly wet himself laughing when I told him I’d raw time him)
tldr: Hoosiers are faster than street tires, but the older they get the harder it is to get heat into them. It allows you to offer co-drives and seem generous but really it’s for the tire warming.
We would need more info, but here are a few pointers I've learned from experience running a bunch of different kind of slicks in autox:
- On road cars, they need a lot of negative camber, or really stiff springs if you intend to really take advantage of them. The added grip causes more weight transfer. If your car is a street car, that can be a problem.
- With their very large slip-angle envelop, you can really overdrive them. That can be a good thing or a bad thing. You can take advantage of that in certain situations, but that can hide a lot of bad driving habits.
- Changing tires at the track everytime is a bitch. Especially when you do it in the rain at the end of a long day.
- Unless you run A7's, you NEED a co-driver to warm-up the tires. Cold slicks have NO grip, so get someone that's not too aggressive.
- Some slicks are impossible to warm-up when the temperature is below 60f. That's a real problem locally, but can be a non-issue for you.
- Some slicks can be VERY sensitive to heat cycles. We tried 13" Hoosier R25B take-offs on a Miata last year. They were fantastic for two events, but on the third, they had less grip than a four-season. They heat cycled out with plenty of rubber left. And Formula V doesn't really work.
- There is a huge difference between your run of the mill 200TW tires and the top Rival S and RE-71.
With all that, I wouldn't run slicks on anything other than a trailered top-runner. Too much hassle and complications. And if I'm running a top-runner, than I would get new A7's.
YMMV
echoechoecho said:depending on size you cant beat the price of take offs, I get R7/SM7 with about 5 runs on them for about $80-$100 the set.
Where the heck do you get them at that cost? My set of A7 Runoffs qualifiers was about $75 per tire from JBT. And I was fairly underwhelmed by their performance on the Manic Miata.
I ran SM7s at the 2017 Challenge on a Miata with lots of camber and stiff springs and sway bar. I was surprised at how hot the tires got. It was to the point where Alan McCrispin ( pro driver ) asked if I had a sprayer with me to cool them down. They were heating up enough that I had to reduce the pressures down by 3 psi twice in 6 runs. That was completely unexpected as I had assumed a road race compound would not get up to temperature.
And Duke, 5 of those SM7s cost me nothing. They were taken from the pile of takeoffs at my local road course.
A7's? Yeah, much faster than a 200tw tire. R7's? Only if you can get them hot enough. Others have pointed out the issues. I went with a set of 200 tw for my miata, as I plan on driving it to/from events.
How do take offs hold up versus new 200tw tires? Similar amount of runs? Half as many? Less?
Would going to a smaller size R7(like a 185) make it easier to keep heat in the tires? Workable with 1 person on a 90+ degree day?
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