Non-ethanol fuel: Do we care?

We've written about this topic over at Classic Motorsports but not so much here. How big is your concern regarding ethanol fuels? Is it causing problems? It's causing some major issues with classic car owners.

I have been running standard pump gas in everything, but lately I have been thinking that it makes sense to use non-ethanol in our older stuff--if anything, maybe we have dodged a bullet all these years. Our older cars tend to sit more, too, making the ethanol gas a bigger issue.

So this weekend I did something about it. There's a propane shop near our office that offers both 87 and 93 octane non-ethanol gas. The big plus: It's near the office. The reality: They're not open 24/7, and the 93 octane costs about $3.39/gallon. I put $45 worth of fuel the 911 yesterday.

Pure-gas.org shows a few other non-ethanol outlets near us. Today we passed one on the way home that offers 90 octane for $3.05/gallon, so I topped off there. Our nearest Wawa offers non-ethanol fuel for $2.59/gallon, but I believe it's 89 octane. They're about 12 miles south of us and, to be honest, I have never been there although we're getting one close by. We can also get 110 race fuel in town, but the pump said $9.99/gallon.

So, more just wondering what the rest of the crew thinks about this, especially those with older cars and/or cars that sit for a while.

My formerly air-cooled VW powered Kelmark with duel empi hpmx carbs, even though it had two gas filters in line, I was constantly plugging the idle Jets. I would take them out and there would be a thin yellow film plugging them. I have to run a small piece of wire through them and give them a quick blowing out. The car was only driven in the warmer months, I'd have to do it at least in the spring, about mid summer and early fall. It was a pain in the butt.

I believe in New Hampshire all over the road gasoline has to be E10. I also noticed this film in my girlfriends riding mower carb jet. The mower got less use than my kelmark as she was afraid to use it and it was basically there for me to make quick work of her lawn when she didn't get around to push mowing. Thus I give the E10 of break due to lack of use of the mower. I would have given it a break on the kelmark if it was only a spring cleaning but I was putting on about 4000 miles between the first drive of the spring and the last Drive of the Fall and it's still needing multiple cleanings through the season.

That said, I would prefer alcohol-free gas or even mtbe oxygenated fuel if it was not such a pollutant. A co-worker had a Triumph tr6 that sat for 16 years with gas in the tank it was mtbe gas and untreated. He was able to fire it up and get it running without cleaning the carbs or fuel system with the old gas still in the tank. I will say it was stored indoors in a attached garage which probably helped some. I really doubt it would have fired if it had e10 in the tank for that amount of time.

The answer is, it depends. Some people have all kinds of problems with e10, others don't, but I'm not sure why that is.

In Minnesota we've had e10 for probably 30 years now. In that time I've had one motorcycle that was susceptible to gummed up carbs, but I've had no issues with other bikes, cars, or my lawnmower.

Never had an issue with it. I think that no matter what type of fuel it is if you let it sit for a while it gets nasty. I am a big fan of gas stabilizers. I run stabil in all my yard equipment and never had any issues. I put everything away wet and full and every spring things fire up no issues. The snow blower is on the revers schedule and sees much less use and again no issues with it sitting a year or more between start ups. I really am a believer in that stuff.

My cars don't seem to care.

All of my Italian bikes hate ethanol, whether they have carbs or fuel injection.

The two Honda bikes we have don't seem to care.

Trans_Maro wrote: All of my Italian bikes hate ethanol, whether they have carbs or fuel injection.

My Aprilia didn't seem to care about running on fuel with ethanol, but like Ducatis, its tank swells with ethanol-containing fuel

The previous owner had to come up with a sort of eccentric mount for the front of the tank. It doesn't seem to have gotten worse, though I've tried to mostly keep non-ethanol gas in it.

Ransom wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: All of my Italian bikes hate ethanol, whether they have carbs or fuel injection.

My Aprilia didn't seem to care about *running* on fuel with ethanol, but like Ducatis, its tank swells with ethanol-containing fuel The previous owner had to come up with a sort of eccentric mount for the front of the tank. It doesn't seem to have gotten worse, though I've tried to mostly keep non-ethanol gas in it.

That is weird.

stuart in mn wrote: The answer is, it depends. Some people have all kinds of problems with e10, others don't, but I'm not sure why that is.

Preconceived notions.

Nothing I own seems to care. Everything's fuel injected. The FD is the oldest and the fuel system is 100% original 1993 vintage.

I noticed about a 10% increase in fuel economy in my '09 Fit. That pretty much covered the price difference. I figure that in small engines, and probably classics, fuel stabilizer is good, non-ethanol is better, and both is better still.

Anything made before the early 90s will likely need any rubber bits in the fuel system replaced, as the older ones weren't always alcohol-safe. Anything newer should be fine with ethanol.

For anything with a carb, it might need to be tweaked a hair richer, and fuel stabilizer is good if it doesn't get used frequently.

But realistically, I've seen zero ethanol problems that weren't old rubber degrading from exposure to it. I've heard of plenty, but never actually seen the issues first hand.

In reply to rslifkin:

That's where I'm at. If you're fuel system is old enough that ethanol is causing an issue with the rubber bits it should probably be addressed anyway. Purists that insist on not using new materials I have no sympathy what so ever. Fuel lines are life limited items. Just replace with material that'll handle readily available gas and save yourself the issue. It's not like anyone is going to notice anyway.

Stabilizer for cars with carbs and you're good to go.

But I'm also the guy that empties the carbs and tanks of his power equipment when he's finished with them.

Alcohol kills the rubber in older systems AKA Carbs newer FI systems use a higher pressure and are mostly steel and aren't affected by the alcohol.

I've done the test comparing mpg of ethanol vs. non-ethanol and non-ethanol gets a little better mpg. About enough to match the price difference so it's a wash. In my newer injected cars I run whatever is at the pump which is ethanol. I also run mid-grade 89 octane. Gets a little better mpg and doesn't have issues that come with cheap gas. Started doing that with the K5 I had years ago, engine would ping with anything less than 89 octane. 89 or better it didn't ping. In my classic 70 Opel GT w/carburetor and fuel lines not designed for ethanol I pay the extra to get non-ethanol premium. Gets about 4 tanks a year so not a big deal to me. I now run non-ethanol regular in my mowers. Have been through carb issues on them in the past, worth it to me to pay a bit more for it rather than replace carbs or mowers because of issues. I have 3 mowers, a rider, a pusher and a 4-stroke weedeater for my 1 acre yard.

The autocross crew I race with have been running the non-ethanol premium in their autocross cars and say it makes a difference, mainly because it's 93 octane. My autocross Miata needs gas, think I'll try a tank just to check it out. Been running 91 octane ethanol gas in it. Figure it couldn't hurt.

I've replaced 2 fuel pressure regulators on my '95 Volvo, I'm convinced ethanol was the culprit.

Now that I have easy access, the ghetto Gulf station near my house has non-ethanol, I do my best to only run non-ethanol in all of my gas burners, both Jeeps, the Volvo, and the Grand Marquis.

I keep a 5 gallon jerrycan on hand with non-ethanol and Stabil in it for all the lawn equipment and ATVs.

If you're in the mood for gas and a totally alright sandwich, head down to Wawa. I like the meatball parms. They also don't charge for air, so top up the tires too.

My fuel mileage cares.

Only non-ethanol with stabil in my small engines. E10 in the fleet's tanks, an 88 350 Silverado with TBI, two 04 with PFI.

I've run E10 in my TR6 for 10 years (since I got it) and have had no problems. I use E10 with Stabil in my lawn mowers. One sat for a year without being used (long story) but it started up with no problems this spring. Same story for my little Honda generator.

I try to avoid using it an any of the chainsaws or tractors or anything old, as it really screws up the carburetors when they sit. Not to mention, it goes bad in a month or two, which they are prone to sitting that long.

In my Z it killed the stock fuel system because it would sit for awhile between drives. Eventually clogged the whole thing. Switching to ethanol rated line fixed the issue however.

Never had an issue with any engine. When I let me lawnmower or pressure washer sit for 3-8 months I put some stabil in the gas.

Most stations I stop at for diesel now have stickers saying the diesel has ethanol content. I am hoping that is not true in diesel.

Maybe the employees are just not too bright and put the stickers in the wrong place. Maybe its actually biodiesel, and is mis-labeled.

Regardless, I get E36 M3ty fuel economy with the darned stuff. Like 25% drop.

Ethanol is for drinking, not driving

Toebra wrote: Ethanol is for drinking, not driving

Reminds me of the old racer's saying: "Gasoline's for washing parts, alcohol is for drinking, and nitro is for racing"