Non-retractable seat belt for rallycross

I'm thinking about a lot of different things to get ready for the next rallycross season. One of them is/was a better harness. Right now I use an ill-fitting and hard to adjust 3 point Corbeau harness. I was looking at the Schroth Rallye Cross and Rallye 4 harnesses. The thing is, I keep reading comments about how dangerous 4 point harnesses are. Now, in the case of these two, they do have Anti Sub tech built in which I think addresses most of the concerns I read about. However, the rollover danger is what still gets me. I know rollover risk is very minimal, but I have already seen it happen and I've only been doing this for two seasons.

I also see a lot of comments about just locking the stock belt in place, or using a GC lock. I borrowed a GC lock for one event and my co-driver hated it. Since we do co-drive the car and have to change drivers quickly, I wondered if pulling on the belt till the end where it begins to lock each might get to be a real pain, so what about the potential of an old school style non-retractable belt? The most important thing seems to be a tight lap belt, which it would do, and you wouldn't have to mess around with the retracting nature of the stock belt.

Anyone done anything like this? This is a rallycross only car, if that makes a difference.

I have the shroth belts in my car.   They hook up to stock locations.  I find them to be easy to adjust.  Very happy with them.

My Golf had only a shoulder belt.  (VW was weird in the 80s. )  Rules say all vehicles must have at least a lap belt.  I installed a $25 NAPA non-adjustable universal lap belt, and loved it.  Worked better than the 5 point in my RX-7.

For my new RX-7, I'm going to forego installation of a harness and just install an additional lap belt to hold my hips down.

The 4 point schroth harnesses work but have the potential for injury in a roll.  I am tall so my helmet is close to the roof.  If it buckled and came down an inch or two, my neck would be holding up the car with a 4+ point harness.

I wonder if using the bottom two belts of the schroth harness would be safe.  I am not certain if going from a 3 point to lap belt is legal in any class.  I would check with a safety steward in your local region before making a permanent change here.

You can try putting on your 3 point belts with the seat all the way back, then push the seat forward with the belts still on.  This locks them in place in many cars 

Another option is to twist the seatbelt a few times before buckling it in.  Then, it can't retract any further due to the twists.

In reply to ojannen :

The safety section of the rules (which applies to all vehicles) says that all vehicles must have at least a lap belt, and that any additional safety harnesses must be installed per manufacturer's recommendations.

I never ran my Golf without the shoulder belt (it did basically nothing) but I have run my RX-7 without the shoulder strap parts of the 5-point, at a low speed/low impact/low temperature event. (No bouncing around, no high Gs, lots heavier clothing than I could squeeze under the shoulder belts)  To be honest, I'd have preferred a non retractable lap belt for speed of buckling-up.

The 3 point in RX-7s is hilariously bad, the buckle is on a stiff enough cable that it holds the belt away from you, so just using the 3 point instead of the harness would be like being unbelted as far as holding you down in the seat is concerned.

I've got the Schroth Rallye 4-point in my rallycross car.  I got them used so this might just be a "me" problem, but I find them intensely difficult to adjust.  Other than that, I love them.  They also have a FMVSS number so they're road-legal, although I still have the regular 3-points in the car as well.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

The prepared rules say you cannot decrease the number of seatbelt attachment points and there is no additional allowance for modified.  I am not sure if the rule makes it legal to install a 4 point harness and only use the lap belt.  To me, it looks like switching to a lap belt only is prohibited.

In reply to ojannen :

So run a lap belt in addition to the 3 point.  Think of it as a G-lock that doesn't rip up your belt over time.  That is my plan, as I also want the lap belt to be more forward.  Stock 3-points ride up really high on me, off of my pelvis and up into "put skid marks on your spleen" territory.

Note that when I was running without shoulder straps, I was still using three points: the two lap connections and the sub strap.   (Whether that met the spirit of the rule could be addressed by running the shoulder belts fully loose, although that still poses the issue of being able to get buckled in quickly)  Anyway, I thought Schroth had two left and right 'halves" that came together, so you couldn't use it as a lap belt only. 

The best of all worlds would be like what some cars in the late 60s/early 70s had, with non retracting lap belts and separate shoulder belts.  That ruled for being able to get the lap belt down tight.

wae said:

I've got the Schroth Rallye 4-point in my rallycross car.  I got them used so this might just be a "me" problem, but I find them intensely difficult to adjust.  Other than that, I love them.  They also have a FMVSS number so they're road-legal, although I still have the regular 3-points in the car as well.

The adjustability concerns me, especially since we co-drive and are swapping drivers constantly and she is about 6" shorter than me.  

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to ojannen 

 

The best of all worlds would be like what some cars in the late 60s/early 70s had, with non retracting lap belts and separate shoulder belts.  That ruled for being able to get the lap belt down tight.

I'm curious if something like this might be worth a shot, especially for the price. The adjustability looks like kind of a pain, but it might work out because she moves the seat closer to the steering wheel than me. Still, something like this that is faster to adjust might be a good option.  

https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/CH300.html

In reply to HopmanJones :

I added a 5 point harness this off season. Between you and Hickey, you've got me freaking out enough to have pulled the trigger on ordering a bolt in roll bar. SWMBO will be happy knowing I'm safe in case of rollover. 
 

Greg

gszczyrbak said:

In reply to HopmanJones :

I added a 5 point harness this off season. Between you and Hickey, you've got me freaking out enough to have pulled the trigger on ordering a bolt in roll bar. SWMBO will be happy knowing I'm safe in case of rollover. 
 

Greg

you'll be happy you did....5-point really holds you in place well, without riding up your belly like the 4-point (I admittedly used to have one when I autocrossed, it was always uncomfortable when tightened sufficiently.  

Other plus side of the roll bar is it should increase chassis stiffness to some degree, aside from the increased safety aspect. 

That said, my car still has OEM seatbelts as well as harnesses for when I have codrivers, they just use the OEM belt so I don't have to adjust the harness. 

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

I just found out that the roll bar I ordered is for hatchback models only.  I have a sedan.  I'm still confirming, but I may have to get something custom made instead.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

My Golf had only a shoulder belt.  (VW was weird in the 80s. ) 

I had one of those VWs, too. I wound up adding a lap belt--like a 3-inch model for a race car. That was not my favorite car (sorry not sorry).