Now for some very un-grassroots news: AM-RB001 first look

This is the new joint-project supercar from Aston Martin and Red Bull Racing promised to have lap times similar to an LMP1 car or even an F1 car

Features massive underbody downforce thanks to a huge diffuser and a front wing (yes, look closely), F1-like seating position (required for the front wing), NA V12 hybrid powertrain, and an official price tag of "If you have to ask..."

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/british/stop-what-youre-doing-its-aston-martin-am-rb-001

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/05/autos/aston-martin-red-bull-hypercar/index.html

That Top Gear link makes it sound like they don't have a powertrain figured out yet, other than it being an NA v12 with hybrid assists. No engine details other than "Compact v12". No trans details other than "not a dual clutch". No hybrid details. Maybe they're just playing coy, but based on what we know, it seems like there's still a great deal of work to be done.

That said, it's sure to be an exciting piece of machinery

I think they might have to put something damn close to a F1 engine in there to get the power-to-weight ratio they want without boost. If the car's in another league of expense beyond today's top-of-the-line supercars, the owners might not mind paying 100k for a rebuild every month with regular use.

I really doubt you'll get F1 lap times out of anything that's road legal. Getting 900 hp isn't the problem, that number has been achieved in street cars a handful of times before. Getting 900 hp in a 1200 pound car, OTOH...

I'm thinking they'll need power clean into the 4-digits. To achieve this without boost, even on a big V12, the engine will have to be built F1 style - to within an inch of its life, not designed to last long between rebuilds.

In reply to codrus:

Article mentions that only the track version would match LMP1 times. Article says, "it will have bigger wings and diffusers, wider tyres, and a stripped cabin. But the powertrain and fundamentals will be the same."

GameboyRMH wrote: I'm thinking they'll need power clean into the 4-digits. To achieve this without boost, even on a big V12, the engine will have to be built F1 style - to within an inch of its life, not designed to last long between rebuilds.

The article seems to indicate they're going more for small and lightweight powertrain (Primarily due to the aero advantages) than giant/mega hp. Sounds to me like they're targeting LMP1 numbers, so maybe 1000hp combined at peak power, but 300-500ish hp from the ICE alone. The aero is what will make this car, not sheer power.

Given the company, I'd assume this is 1 HP per Kilogram, not 1 HP per pound. Like the Koneisisegieiesiggiesisggg

1HP per kilo is still a tough target...if the car were 900kg (1984lbs) it would still need 900hp. The Aventador V12 is 740hp and the Vulcan V12 is 800hp for comparison. Those are close in power but those are not compact or lightweight engines, and their weight has to fit into the weight of the car.

A vehicle with Red Bull in the name and no wings? That seems like an oversight.

Update: A few more details have come out:

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/aston-martins-new-hypercar-clever-3m-beast/

Price $2~3M, power around 1000hp, weight around 2300lbs. Gordon Murray thinks it will be a hardly-streetable track toy and will have a similar construction to the Yamaha OX99-11.

I still remember when Jaguar couldn't find buyers for the $300,000 XJ220 and McLaren had to stop production early on the F1 due to lack of sales. Now? A Pagani will set you back $1.3 million plus, a Koenigsegg costs $1.5, the Bugatti Chiron starts from $2.6 million, and the Aston Martin Vulcan is $2.3 million despite not even being street legal. Car collectors seem to be swimming in stupid money.

I'd be interested in reading why that is...

Sounds like a lesson in income inequality.

nderwater wrote: I still remember when Jaguar couldn't find buyers for the $300,000 XJ220 and McLaren had to stop production early on the F1 due to lack of sales. Now? A Pagani will set you back $1.3 million plus, a Koenigsegg costs $1.5, the Bugatti Chiron starts from $2.6 million, and the Aston Martin Vulcan is $2.3 million despite not even being street legal. Car collectors seem to be swimming in stupid money.

All of those oil money kids, with no place to spend their money. I feel bad for them.

If it has that much downforce in the undercarriage I doubt it will make it out of a driveway without scraping. And speed bumps may as well be a floor jack. If someone wants to waste their money on this in hopes of having something "street legal" more power to them.

GameboyRMH wrote: Price $2~3M, power around 1000hp, weight around 2300lbs. Gordon Murray thinks it will be a hardly-streetable track toy...

...which is comprehensively stupid. Very few people dropping $2-3M on a car are remotely interested in tracking it. They want an exotic, high-performance luxury car, not a harsh and spartan beast.

For $2-3M you could buy an actual retired LMP1-type race car and track the real deal for your toy.

In reply to Duke: I don't disagree with your opinion that it's stupid, but there seems to be a market for stuff like that. Looking at how quickly things like Ferrari's XX program, the McLaren P1 GTRs, and the Aston Vulcan have sold out seems to back up the idea that the super wealthy aren't afraid to pay out the nose for the latest dedicated track cars from highly regarded brands.

STM317 wrote: I don't disagree with your opinion that it's stupid, but there seems to be a market for stuff like that. Looking at how quickly things like Ferrari's XX program, the McLaren P1 GTRs, and the Aston Vulcan have sold out seems to back up the idea that the super wealthy aren't afraid to pay out the nose for the latest dedicated track cars from highly regarded brands.

There's a serious speculation bubble happening for these specific ultra-low production volume cars. I think that the rich guys shelling out big bucks for them plan to enjoy them for a little while then flip the cars for even more money to buyers who don't have the right factory hook-ups to get their hands on them.

Billionaires are investing huge sums to buy rare cars straight from the manufacturers because they know they can flip them for more money. The manufactures realize they can charge any price they want on their ‘special’ models because as long as they keep the production volume super low that there will be buyers for the cars. It’s creating a perverse feedback-loop, and the bottom is going to fall out of that market eventually.

So more details about the car were revealed today. I'm not sure if this became more interesting or less interesting to me. I'm really curious to see how they keep the weight down to the stated target of 1000kg with a 6.5L V12 and hybrid equipment. With the McLaren P1 and La Ferrari both topping 3400lbs, I'm doubtful they hit their weight target. I guess we'll see.

TLDR; Cosworth 6.5L V12, Rimac hybrid bits, Ricardo 7 spd flappy paddle box, etc.

nderwater wrote:

STM317 wrote: I don't disagree with your opinion that it's stupid, but there seems to be a market for stuff like that. Looking at how quickly things like Ferrari's XX program, the McLaren P1 GTRs, and the Aston Vulcan have sold out seems to back up the idea that the super wealthy aren't afraid to pay out the nose for the latest dedicated track cars from highly regarded brands.

There's a serious speculation bubble happening for these specific ultra-low production volume cars. I think that the rich guys shelling out big bucks for them plan to enjoy them for a little while then flip the cars for even more money to buyers who don't have the right factory hook-ups to get their hands on them. Billionaires are investing huge sums to buy rare cars straight from the manufacturers because they know they can flip them for more money. The manufactures realize they can charge any price they want on their ‘special’ models because as long as they keep the production volume super low that there will be buyers for the cars. It’s creating a perverse feedback-loop, and the bottom is going to fall out of that market eventually.

I'm not so sure there is a "bottom" to fall out. The fortune that lets me command the dollars to have McLaren make me my own special Huckleberry 10000GT if I want is small beans to the kind of dick swinging that goes on out in the marina.

We are talking close to a billion dollars here... (400M pounds sterling) and next year someone will need a bigger one. Google Azzam.

In reply to Huckleberry:

When your family is worth $150 billion, spending a few hundred million on a fancy boat doesn't make as much of a dent as you'd think.

In related news: 8 dudes now have the same purchasing power as 3.7 billion people

Heard the car's final production name, Valkyrie, mentioned in the Goodwood festival stream, and found there's a good bit of other news to catch up on:

Wikipedia page

Highlights:

• There is a production-ready prototype driving around
• The engine makes 1130hp (Edit: An R&T article says that's the combined output of the ICE and electric motor, and the engine alone is just under 1khp).
• CF monocoque frame, no steel structural parts on the car
• Weight will be 1030kg, meaning the car has more than 1hp/kg like the Koenigsegg 1:1

Looking at details like "no steel in the structure", I wonder what crash protection there is? Real racers wear fire suits and helmets, and build a robust skillset from loads of actual seat time, typically in progressively faster cars. Oil Barons spend their time baroning oil, not learning how to clip an apex while steering with the throttle at 10/10ths. Id be interested to see how much of the worlds wealth transfers to some heirs as a result of "spirited driving" from a noob.

STM317 wrote: In related news: 8 dudes now have the same purchasing power as 3.7 billion people

I hope this doesnt flounder up this thread, but if there arent rich & poor, money has no value...just saying

4cylndrfury wrote: I hope this doesnt flounder up this thread, but if there arent rich & poor, money has no value...just saying

True, but it's not a binary condition and money still had value in the '60s...just saying.

Aaand now it looks like this car's being parodied in a Grand Theft Auto update, as the Dewbauchee Vagner The front wing masquerading as a splitter is a pretty distinctive feature.