Okay Scoobie guys..enlighten me.

nderwater wrote: winter tires? :p

Unless there are steep hills on your way good from work awd will be no better on ice than anything else.

DILYSI Dave wrote: That said - driving around on the 25th and 26th was no problem on balding summer performance tires. Hell - the roads were dry by yesterday afternoon - nothing to refreeze. I'm with your boss on this one.

I get the impression that N.Ga got hit a lot harder than Atlanta did. We were glued to georgianavigator.com because we had relatives that were supposed to visit on the 26th and the north was dotted with "do not enter" symbols.

Getting in and out of his workplace was probably fine, getting out of his neighborhood may not have been, dunno.

That said, count me in the camp of "ice-friendly(er) tires sound cheaper than a whole car" camp. That is, unless the FGC just needs an excuse to buy a fun awd dd?

ddavidv wrote:

Travis_K wrote: Subaru parts cost quite a bit more then VW parts, and they really arent made as well.

I completely disagree, having owned a Jetta GLI and a Audi GT prior to running Subarus. VW products in the era the OP is talking about are certainly not more reliable than Subarus. The occasions where Subarus parts are more expensive it's not really significant, because Subarus take far fewer parts than VWs.

Between a 1992 Jetta 8v and a 1996 Legacy Outback, the parts have cost alot more for the Legacy. Clutch about 1.5 times as much, more then 4 times times and much for the timing belt job (although yes we did have to replace all the roller bearings on the subaru), brake rotors are more, etc. New CV joints for the VW (as in factory ones) are less than half what Subaru ones cost. Also, Subaru outer CV joints dont always come out of the hub, so you have to be prepared to replace the spindle, hub, bearing, etc if the CV joint needs replacement. The car has been very reliable though, other than anything that has had to have been replaced with non factory parts, most of which have been done several times (5 kragens alternators, 3 fuel pumps, etc).

The special rubber in the snow/ice tires remains soft in cold weather. Summer and All Seasons tend to get hard in the cold.

In reply to DaveEstey:

Did you anchor those screws from the inside of the tire ? If not they won't stay in very long.

No I didn't. And they lasted a while. Not having ABS meant locking up the wheels, which didn't help things. A lot of them stayed in fine but a couple dozen didn't.

But it cost me $25 to make the tires so I wasn't expecting longevity.

I was going to ask if getting to work was really that important, but then I peeked at your bio. Okay, you were probably expected at work.

I lived in Athens for four years and Atlanta for two. I can remember two situations that would have required something more than FWD and all-seasons. Hmmm, tough call.

On a related note, my cousin just posted a photo taken during his trek across Manhattan to get to work--at night, no busses, no cabs, no plowed sidewalks. He's an MD. Yeah, he also had to be there.

Matt B wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: That said - driving around on the 25th and 26th was no problem on balding summer performance tires. Hell - the roads were dry by yesterday afternoon - nothing to refreeze. I'm with your boss on this one.

I get the impression that N.Ga got hit a lot harder than Atlanta did. We were glued to georgianavigator.com because we had relatives that were supposed to visit on the 26th and the north was dotted with "do not enter" symbols.

Bingo! DILYSI Dave, when I drove in on Saturday, We already had 1/4in on the ground when I left the house at 12noon. Got down to Marietta, it turned to rain. Got into the city, it wasn't even raining yet. We got hit hard up here, there was still a couple of patches black ice when I came home on the night of the 29th.

Matt B wrote: Getting in and out of his workplace was probably fine, getting out of his neighborhood may not have been, dunno.

Yeah, that's the problem. In the past, my company was very quick to respond to such things (renting rooms in a nearby hotel for workers, etc.). Since our last merger, not so much. I arrived with a shaving kit and a change of clothing, and my management asked me why. Yeah, I could get there on both days..but 100% sure I'd never get back. I'm too berkeleying old to sleep in the parking garage.

Matt B wrote: That said, count me in the camp of "ice-friendly(er) tires sound cheaper than a whole car" camp. That is, unless the FGC just needs an excuse to buy a fun awd dd?

I've got almost (less than a month, actually) 20yrs working for this company, and don't want to lose a well-paying job simply because I (and SWMBO..I'll admit that's a very big concern for me) no longer care to live so much closer to the city.

OTOH, this is no longer the company I came to work for back then. Since the last "merger", they no longer value experience, and see older employees as a liability (higher salaries, etc.). Nonsense like this (calling out on a holiday) helps the HR Dept. to build the case they need to dissmiss me.

Thanks for your comments, everyone..sounds like what I really need is another Mk.2 VW Golf without the "big bumper" bodywork, and some 65 series tires on steelies for the ice.

In reply to SVreX:

Dude, I attempted to address you message point-by-point. But I hit some key on my keyboard that eliminated it. Thank the gods of bandwidth reduction, it was really long.

Still, gotta say:

1.) No, not a new job. Been there 20yrs on January 7th..

2,) Nah, my bosses aren't idiots, and many of them are my former co-workers. They're just trying to live within the same Corporate Idiocy that I am, and keep they own jobs.

3.) I don't want to be "promoted". I'm good at what I do, and I enjoy doing it. It acutally makes me angry that the new performance reviews now reward ambition more than they do performance.

4.) Over the last 20yrs, I've been through this kind of thing (Atlanta ice storms) many times. On this particular occasion, I was shocked to discover that my company was not prepared for this kind of thing, since they'd been much more "proactive" on previous occasions during the last 20 years. That is a major difference in my management's behavior.

5.) I had a change of clothes, and even a toothbrush and razor. On previous occasions, I used them in the hotel room provided my my employer (of course, that was before the full force of American Corporate Idiocy came to my division of our once privately owned company). I didn't expect to have to sleep, or change clothing, or shave myself in the cockpit of my car in the stinking parking garage.

6.) Wait until your own community has a winter storm, and then attempt to sleep through the night in one of your cars. You are allowed to run the engine to generate some heat, but I do not recommend that you do so in an enclosed space.

As always, your mileage may vary.

I wasn't suggesting sleeping in your car, although I have done it several times (once very recently- no, I didn't run the engine).

They were just alternative ideas. I'm glad to hear I was wrong at some level in my understanding of what you were saying. I don't mind being wrong one bit.

Sounds like you've got everything under control.

I think there are a lot of good reasons to buy a Subie (I've got 4), especially where you live. There is plenty of opportunity to enjoy it's capability, whether or not there is snow (I've got a cabin near Dahlonega- I know).

Just don't buy it because of snow. Buy it because you want it. If not, buy a Quatro, or stick with VW.

And listen to what folks are saying here about ice and tires. In spite of your memories, Atlanta averages less than 2.5 inches of snow per year, with plenty of years that don't see any at all. The last time ATL had a white Christmas was in 1882. Ice storms are a much bigger deal than snow. Be prepared for them.

A set of snows costs about as much as one deductable, (if you carry it) and are so much more fun to use.

I guess spending my entire life in Massachusetts has jaded me, but you sounds like a total wimp! haha We got 18 inches of snow Sunday into Monday from that same storm and I was at work on Monday and every day since. I know you southerns aren't used to it but a little snow and ice isn't the end of the world!

We don't drive on summer only tires in the Winter and neither should you if it gets colder than 40 degrees. I drove a Miata through two winters. I had summer only tires mounted on K1s and Bridgestone Blizzaks on stock rims.

Modern day "winter" tires are the cat's PJs. They are designed for temps under 40 degrees and are actually designed for ice more than snow. The worst conditions you can drive through is just about freezing temp... ice with water on top is the slickest surface you'll find on road. "Winter" tires evacuate water from the surface and grip to the ice.

Get some cheap wheels, high performance winter tires (a little sportier for your very light winters), and forget the AWD unless you really want an AWD car. Not required down there.

miatame wrote: Modern day "winter" tires are the cat's PJs. They are designed for temps under 40 degrees and are actually designed for ice more than snow. The worst conditions you can drive through is just about freezing temp... ice with water on top is the slickest surface you'll find on road.

That's also about the most common wet winter weather conditions in Atlanta; it's rarely very far below the freezing mark here.

Almost nobody owns a set of winter tires here - many of the GRM forum members, myself included, had no idea they have any advantage except in snow, and fewer non-car-guys would have any idea of that. We might have two days of snow on the roads a year during an exceptionally cold year, so pretty much everyone gets the idea that "snow tires" are a waste of money.

I recommend a winter driving course. No one from the South can drive in the winter, albeit no one can drive up north either, anyways... Car control is ALOT more important than having a lifted 2500HD Duramax with treads. With enough "skill" you can put anything in the ditch.

All season tires on my POS Cadavalier have gotten me through declared state of emergency snowstorms just fine. The only time I ever got stuck was when I was plowing a path through about ~8" of wet snow and I buried her up to the floorpan. At that point it wasn't really the tires fault. I just had to dig her out and back out the way I came. Your car is far more capable than you think it is, and living in Georgia and buying an AWD car for the 2 weeks of winter you guys get is insane.

I don't bother to run winter tires because they are extremely soft and once I hit dry pavement will wear out quickly. I drive >100 miles a day, so I would make it less than 2 winters per set. I'm not about to go outside and swap wheels in the middle of winter, so all-season's will have to work.

Thanks for the input, everyone! On the surface, it seems like what I need to do is buy a set of winter tires, and get one of my other cars with a softer suspension up & running.

I'm worried about buying the dedicated winter tires that y'all from up north do, though. As a couple of you have mentioned, we really don't need them down here very often..how safe would they be if I bought a set, had them mounted, and then left them in the garage for 10 months or more? I'd think that after sitting up for that long, they'd be so dry-rotted that they'd be useless.

Someone else touched on it earlier, and I think it bears repeating.

TIRE CHAINS.

When I was underemployed and didn't want to put out the money for another set of winter wheels and tires, this was my best option for getting back home.

You can cheap out and get the ones from walmart, like I did, but there are some better fitting and more expensive options out there.

You probably aren't exceeding 45mph with chains on though, so forget about taking the highway home. But at least you aren't sleeping in the office!

Racer1ab wrote: TIRE CHAINS.

you're from WVa... it snows a lot and sticks around ... in Atlanta... if you put chains on at home and got to work ( odds are you'd be driving on pavement with chains, before you got there) you would for sure be trying to drive on pavement w/ chains on the way home.... and would still need them somewhere along the way... a set of dedicated winter tires on cheap steelies, put away for the off season is the smart way ( the tires .. if stored correctly .. will last several yrs

DILYSI Dave wrote: It is my understanding that snow tires are nearly as useless on ice as any other tire.

It is fine that that is "your" understanding, but no, that is not right. Of course, a true ice tire (lots of contact patch, super soft with lots of sipes) grips better on ice than a snow tire, but you would be totally lost in any amount of snow with them.

Anyways, I think I agree with svrex. Better priorities OR just buy the snow tires (which is much cheaper than a new car). The tires if stored properly will last for years, and you can easily run ice tires in the "winter" time for 3 months without them wearing out prematurely. My mom runs on ice tires year round for the past 2 years and still has 25% tread (she does 30,000kms a year, not too shabby).

Tire Rack has the Continental ExtremeContact DWS, which is their #1 UHPAS, AND their review says they're super-effective in the snow. That's what I'd do.