Old Car versus Newer for Track Car

Right now I have a mildly prepped '93 BMW 325IS that's my track car. The previous owner put in about $15k worth of maintenance and modifications to the car and I got the car for $3500. I have a hectic work schedule so time is a premium and my wife and I are thinking about having kids. The car is pretty good, albeit slow, but the maintenance is killing me. I'm not talking consumables and normal track maintenance. I'm talking between each track day, I spend 15-20hrs in fixing random seals, valve cover, VANOS, ABS computer, wheel speed sensors, wiring, etc. I do all the maintenance myself, but I'm kind of at the point where I'm wondering will it ever end. Sometimes I just want to jump in the car and drive.

So I'm at a crossroads, do I spend another $10k on the BMW and have everything rebuilt from front to rear? Or do I buy a used BRZ/FRS and gut it and prep it as a track car? I know Miata is always the answer, but if you've read my old threads I'm pushing 6'8" so car choices are limited. Even the BRZ/FRS would have to be gutted for me to fit.

Sounds like you are almost done fixing the e36...

maybe to consider with each: BMW will still be a $3500 (maybe) car after you invest $13,500. What is a frisbee worth after its been gutted for track work?

Newer cars have more stuff to break. You talk about changing VANOS parts, ABS computers, and wheel speed sensors...an old car would never have those problems.

Race cars always break/need work. Nature of the beast, even if you rebuilt the E36 back to front.

Can you afford to sink the money into an FRS, gut it, spend more to get it track ready...then heaven forbid wad it up? If you can't, then stick with the E36.

I wouldn't choose the FRS, but that's only because I've seen more than a couple of them pop on track. What level of track stuff are you doing? Is there an actual competitive thing going on? Do you want to move to something like TT or wheel to wheel? If you're not competeting, or plan to be, there's a LOT to be said for track cars with full interiors and things like defrosters and AC.

Klayfish wrote: Race cars always break/need work. Nature of the beast, even if you rebuilt the E36 back to front. Can you afford to sink the money into an FRS, gut it, spend more to get it track ready...then heaven forbid wad it up? If you can't, then stick with the E36.

^^^ This. At least parts costs for an e36 will be cheaper than parts costs for a frs.

I drive an FRS, and while I do like the car, I do not trust it to live long if I tracked the car. The car was not designed with the cockroach toughness of a Miata.

What I discovered when I started a family was that I had time/budget to work on cars or drive the cars but not both. I chose to focus on the building side since it keeps me at home and the wife unit has no interest in spending time at a track.

An option that I have seen others take is to co-drive and sponsor the owner with tires or $$$. Or take up Lemons or Crapcan racing as an "Arrive and Drive" team member.

My BRZ seems a bit fragile. Not sure how good it would be on track for not breaking things. I do believe sometimes newer cars are easier to track as they have had less stress through most of the components. Things like hubs, mounts, etc. are sure to be longer lasting with newer components, assuming its not a bad design to begin with.

To me, things like brake pads, tire wear, and even fuel consumption make a track car less costly. I know they are slower, but its why Miatas are inexpensive to run.

In reply to Klayfish:

I'm not competing, just track days. Someday I would like to try time trials. I do enjoy having working heat and AC in my car since I still drive it to and from the track. If I keep the E36, I want to put in a roll bar and strip some unnecessary weight. I've been too lax on the safety items.

That's disappointing to hear that the BRZ/FRS isn't as reliable on track. Tempted to find a Miata and just hack it apart until I fit. I love BMWs, but the older they get the more finicky they seem to be.

At your size Miata is not the answer. Unless you plan to cut and weld two Miata together in an extended wheelbase version, it just isn't going to work. No way you will get a rollbar that is tall enough to be above your helmet, but low enough to fit under a hardtop unless you cut a hole in the floor and your butt is on the ground. You really don't want to track an open Miata with a roll cage only. A roll cage will only eat up more of your precious leg room.

I have a '95 M3 track car and just added a '94 325is to the stable. I know what I'm talking about. I spent a bunch of money prepping these cars, the 325is now has a complete M3 drivetrain and GC coilovers setup. I have not spent a dime on my M3 in two years, other than consumables. I don't count the upgrade to E46 M3 ABS. The 325 saw it's first track day last Sunday. Except for a small oil leak somewhere in the top of the motor which we have not yet located, it ran great. Once prepped, you shouldn't have to spend that much money on a track day toy. Wheel to wheel is another matter.

All the stuff you are doing should have been included the the prior owners $15k "prep." It shouldn't cost you another $10k to get it where it needs to be, to be reliable. I've probably spent $15k on my M3 and it is as reliable as a hammer. Take weight out, that's free, except for your time.

My one caveat is mileage. It your car is 150-200,000 miles, you will have issues. My advice, get a clean low mileage '95 M3. Take any worthwhile upgrades off your car and install on M3. After driving your 325, you will really enjoy tracking a stock M3. You will get a better transmission, differential, brakes and chassis reinforcement. You won't describe it as "slow." I guaranty!

I own and have tracked an FRS. Not half the fun of the M3. Did experience a problem with a direct injector after a track day. The FRS no longer sees the track although I still love to drive the car. My son has retired his FRS in favor of the '94 325is we just finished.

Mileage wise I'm at about ~175k mi which is probably why I'm seeing these issues. It's sad how much the money the previous owner dumped into this car for it to still have all these issues. The car has a lot of M3 parts including suspensions, transmission, diff, and brakes. The engine has everything, M3 S52 cams/trays, pink tops, turner headers, uuc exhaust, and a Miller war chip. He replaced/upgraded every suspension component and bushing. He even put in a complete track ready cooling system, new fuel pump, and UUC flywheel/clutch setup.

Maj75 I like your idea of picking up a lower mileage M3 and swapping over all the parts and hopefully avoiding this decay.

I was just in the garage compiling the list of items that failed this weekend: -The tranmission synchro for third is going out, so a junkyard trans needs to go in -Valve cover was warped, I was hoping it would seal but it still leaks oil -ABS failed for the 4th time, looks like it's the solenoid wiring this time.

Fast2L wrote: It's sad how much the money the previous owner dumped into this car for it to still have all these issues. The car has a lot of M3 parts including suspensions, transmission, diff, and brakes. The engine has everything, M3 S52 cams/trays, pink tops, turner headers, uuc exhaust, and a Miller war chip. He replaced/upgraded every suspension component and bushing. He even put in a complete track ready cooling system, new fuel pump, and UUC flywheel/clutch setup.

Hate to say this its already slow it would be just as fun without all the M3 stuff and closer to stock less stuff to break or fabricate. Its a track car your never going to get out of it what you put in, though 4-8K I bet would make it a very solid and reliable runner but well still slow.

After 3 years with the FRs, I would have to say that the Twins are great street cars marketed to the track crowd. This is pretty much the Scion hipster mantra in the first place. Similarly Subaru wants everyone to fantasize that they are running a stage rally. These are great cars as far as they go, but then it is done.

The Miata on the other hand is a track car marketed to the street crowd.

I'd say first step is list everything that needs doing and or may need doing, if the BMW can't be quickly brought up to snuff find a car that's sorted.

Find something that is reliable fun and enjoy it. Don't get hung up on anything beyond that you fit comfortable and is fun to drive.

Frankly at track days it doesn't matter, those of us that drive gutless wonders still manage put in some fast lap times.

Tom

When I had my '92 325i, I reached the same point that you are in now... and I sold the car.
I could have made it another year, but rust was starting to set in and I didn't like fixing a car that was only about 200 hp.
The E36 is a great car (and was a fantastic car against everything else back in the day), but I sold mine and never looked back.
Mine had 170k and I was constantly chasing small repairs.

Fast2L wrote: In reply to Klayfish: I'm not competing, just track days. Someday I would like to try time trials. I do enjoy having working heat and AC in my car since I still drive it to and from the track. If I keep the E36, I want to put in a roll bar and strip some unnecessary weight. I've been too lax on the safety items. That's disappointing to hear that the BRZ/FRS isn't as reliable on track. Tempted to find a Miata and just hack it apart until I fit. I love BMWs, but the older they get the more finicky they seem to be.

Yep, when I said "racing", I meant track days too. It's very possible to wad up a car on a track day. I've seen it...more than once. Saw a young kid playing Fast-n-Furious with daddy's nearly new M3 several years back. He ran out of talent and went into tire barrier sideways at a high rate of speed. Totaled the car.