In reply to z31maniac:
No, you are using 350hp when you are at the peak power number, which is probably less than 5% of the time on a track as it's a pretty narrow engine speed band that would be north of 345hp.
High torque, that's a different thing.
But you said power. 
That vorshlag test is very suspect. He was running poor tire pressures, and 2qt less oil than full for some reason. Also don't know the track conditions.
It is tested for 30min without de-rating power in normal conditions.
z31maniac wrote:alfadriver wrote:You're using it a lot of the time at the track. Read the review. Ford is claiming the car will do 20 minute sessions with no mods. They reported nearly 300° oil temps after 3 hot laps in a row. Rear diff shutting down, etc.Mad_Ratel wrote:Except that 99% of the time, you are not using 350hp anyway.Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: In reply to Nick (picaso) Comstock: Yeah, watching Ben Collin's lap in it with one of the Ford engineers showed quite a lot of understeer and missed apexes, especially while using drift mode. I suspect more tire pressure and a more aggressive alignment will help that, but its still a bit of a heavy FWD biased car, so one has to know how to drive one of those well to get the most out of it. Also TopGear of the past has been known to sandbag laps (the Hawk Stratos replica for example) for their own narrative.Read up on Vorshlags fairly comprehensive review... The rear dif shutsdown 90% of the time which means it's a fwd car with 350hp...
He stated it was 79° ambient. And what pressure should those tires be run at hot on track? He indicated they were using 38 hot as the mark.
And where, or how do you know he was running the car 2 qts low on oil?
In reply to engiekev:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=44598184&postcount=10718
For whatever it's worth. A GKN engineer "weighing in" on the scathing "track" review of the RS.
Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: In reply to jstein77: Sigh, mine hasn't and FordService doesn't see it loaded on any boats. My dealership is reading the info wrong, which is apparently common. I'm really annoyed right now, but I'm going on vacation next week, so I have to just shrug my shoulders and try to enjoy myself. This whole process has been an absolute E36 M3 show and I hope Ford is paying attention.
Well, in their defense, I doubt Ford and Ford dealers are used to fanatical buyers pestering them about an ordered car coming from Germany.
MINI, on the other hand, they have that down. There's a website where you can log on and track your car from the day they issue it a VIN, including watching it cross the Atlantic. It's pretty cool.
When I ordered my Jetta TDI Wagon back in 2003, I waited 10 weeks (was told 6-8) for delivery.
Only 20-30 minute track times for a $36k+ car? Ouch.
Hope your car gets here soon! I've seen a few Nitro Blue ones around. I'd go for the gray myself and I'm sure the white will look awesome.
Spotted at the Corvette museum today, about 2 hours ago. Who are you?
It looks mean in white. I had thought about making one of these my DD in a year or two. Not going to lie, the Vorshlag post kind of put me off of it a bit. I couldn't see the Golf R being much better on track, but the interior was certainly a bit nicer based upon my (albeit limited) experience in both.
DirtyBird222 wrote: Only 20-30 minute track times for a $36k+ car? Ouch.
I remember Evo Xs overheating the transmission in one or two laps when they came out.
accordionfolder wrote: In reply to engiekev: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=44598184&postcount=10718 For whatever it's worth. A GKN engineer "weighing in" on the scathing "track" review of the RS.
Post has been edited and deleted. There are quotes down lower, though. Someone actually called the new Focus a "small-ish" car. The Focus is huge inside and out.
GRM-think has me laughing at the phrases "I'll keep my E36 M3" and "shiny happy opinions"...
It also came to light that the car needs a different driving style. The AWD only works when you are on the throttle and off the brake. If you try to balance the car with left foot braking, the AWD disengages. I see this as a good thing, break people of bad habits 
Paraphrase quote: "He was trying to drive it like an Evo, which won't work, you need to drive it like you've never driven it before."
Knurled wrote:DirtyBird222 wrote: Only 20-30 minute track times for a $36k+ car? Ouch.I remember Evo Xs overheating the transmission in one or two laps when they came out.
You said Mitsubishi, enough said.
Knurled wrote:DirtyBird222 wrote: Only 20-30 minute track times for a $36k+ car? Ouch.I remember Evo Xs overheating the transmission in one or two laps when they came out.
The DCT, not the regular 5 speed.
Knurled wrote:accordionfolder wrote: In reply to engiekev: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=44598184&postcount=10718 For whatever it's worth. A GKN engineer "weighing in" on the scathing "track" review of the RS.Post has been edited and deleted. There are quotes down lower, though. Someone actually called the new Focus a "small-ish" car. The Focus is huge inside and out. GRM-think has me laughing at the phrases "I'll keep my E36 M3" and "shiny happy opinions"... It also came to light that the car needs a different driving style. The AWD only works when you are on the throttle and off the brake. If you try to balance the car with left foot braking, the AWD disengages. I see this as a good thing, break people of bad habits
So the RS which was marketed as the evo replacement / STi competitor / with great AWD will turn it off if you drive it hard?...
I also love how one poster complains that "vorshlag is just like all the other tuner shops without a real engineer"... Um. Fair has a Engineering degree from Texas A&M and has been building racecars for a decade plus now?... There is nothing "tuner" about what he (and his company) does.
Mad_Ratel wrote: So the RS which was marketed as the evo replacement / STi competitor / with great AWD will turn it off if you drive it hard?...
Drive it incorrectly. Drive it poorly. Not "hard".
Try left foot braking in a VW product and you will get zero throttle for a few seconds, not just a little AWD disconnect.
I'm not "fanboying" for the RS, but it is unfair to a car to drive it in such a manner that it won't work to its best advantage, then say the car is junk.
Mad_Ratel wrote: So the RS which was marketed as the evo replacement / STi competitor / with great AWD will turn it off if you drive it hard?...
Who is marketing it like that? Seems like, again, it's the magazines that are doing that specific marketing.
Is there a Ford ad or promotion that touts it like that? (I've not seen it)
Mad_Ratel wrote: I also love how one poster complains that "vorshlag is just like all the other tuner shops without a real engineer"... Um. Fair has a Engineering degree from Texas A&M and has been building racecars for a decade plus now?... There is nothing "tuner" about what he (and his company) does.
Unless he's doing work directly for an OEM, using OEM tools, he's all tuner. Just sayn.
More here: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8453
In regards to the understeer, honestly what did they expect using PSS tires on a front-heavy car on a high speed track?
alfadriver wrote:Mad_Ratel wrote: I also love how one poster complains that "vorshlag is just like all the other tuner shops without a real engineer"... Um. Fair has a Engineering degree from Texas A&M and has been building racecars for a decade plus now?... There is nothing "tuner" about what he (and his company) does.Unless he's doing work directly for an OEM, using OEM tools, he's all tuner. Just sayn.
Not that that it matters whether an engineer is involved on the OEM or aftermarket/'tuner' side of things, as it makes absolutely no difference to the quality of engineering they perform...And the tools they use, no matter how fancy/expensive, are only as good as the people using them. Just sayin.
Driven5 wrote:alfadriver wrote:Not that that it matters whether an engineer is involved on the OEM or aftermarket/'tuner' side of things, as it makes absolutely no difference to the quality of engineering they perform...And the tools they use, no matter how fancy/expensive, are only as good as the people using them. Just sayin.Mad_Ratel wrote: I also love how one poster complains that "vorshlag is just like all the other tuner shops without a real engineer"... Um. Fair has a Engineering degree from Texas A&M and has been building racecars for a decade plus now?... There is nothing "tuner" about what he (and his company) does.Unless he's doing work directly for an OEM, using OEM tools, he's all tuner. Just sayn.
Yes it does. Very much. Tuners don't have the access to what everything means, don't have time access to really do a solid calibration job, can't do a lot of stuff.
We had a tuner come in once to ask how to do something- specifically about some random tables he was able to dig up.
With that kind of information and tools, there's no way you can do what an OEM does.
What scares me most about tuners is that with that level of knowledge, they really don't understand what they are actually undoing. They find a parameter, change it, see what it does, and assume they did the right or wrong thing. They rarely know that there's a far, far easier way of doing what they are trying to do, and in a manner that isn't going to have other, damaging, side effects. The more that powertrains get complicated, the worse this becomes.
Companies like Roush can do it, as they have contracted access to that info, and have their own dyno facilities to do the work.
But if you want to spend money on someone hack job, feel free to.
In light of all the witty banter for the last page, I just want to say
HEY JSTEIN77 - CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR HOW MUCH YOU LIKE YOUR RAD-ASS NEW CAR!!!!
Jeez guys.
I keep checking this thread for pictures and some first hand droolings.
In reply to alfadriver:
That's nice, but just because an OEM did something, doesn't mean it can't be improved upon...Or was necessarily even all that good to start with. Especially in regards to more specific and specialized applications than the OEM's typically have to work with, but in general as well. Not to mention there are good, average, and bad engineers everywhere...Including inside the OEM's.
Although, to the best of my knowledge, Vorshlag doesn't actually do anything with ECU tuning...So I'm not entirely sure what you're being so quick to get up on your high horse for anyways.
In reply to Driven5:
I would think that the PCM tuning is pretty well integrated with the computer controlling the diff (if it's not part of the PCM to begin with) and the computer controlling the suspension (it's electronic) and the computer controlling the ABS (if it's not also controlling the diff...)
alfadriver wrote:Driven5 wrote:Yes it does. Very much. Tuners don't have the access to what everything means, don't have time access to really do a solid calibration job, can't do a lot of stuff. We had a tuner come in once to ask how to do something- specifically about some random tables he was able to dig up. With that kind of information and tools, there's no way you can do what an OEM does. What scares me most about tuners is that with that level of knowledge, they really don't understand what they are actually undoing. They find a parameter, change it, see what it does, and assume they did the right or wrong thing. They rarely know that there's a far, far easier way of doing what they are trying to do, and in a manner that isn't going to have other, damaging, side effects. The more that powertrains get complicated, the worse this becomes. Companies like Roush can do it, as they have contracted access to that info, and have their own dyno facilities to do the work. But if you want to spend money on someone hack job, feel free to.alfadriver wrote:Not that that it matters whether an engineer is involved on the OEM or aftermarket/'tuner' side of things, as it makes absolutely no difference to the quality of engineering they perform...And the tools they use, no matter how fancy/expensive, are only as good as the people using them. Just sayin.Mad_Ratel wrote: I also love how one poster complains that "vorshlag is just like all the other tuner shops without a real engineer"... Um. Fair has a Engineering degree from Texas A&M and has been building racecars for a decade plus now?... There is nothing "tuner" about what he (and his company) does.Unless he's doing work directly for an OEM, using OEM tools, he's all tuner. Just sayn.
That's all true. But it's also the same thing people have been saying since that EFI witchcraft hit the scene 40 years ago.
As long as OEMs tune cars assuming that the dumbest 20 year old sales puke lets the dumbest 19 year old fresh-up take a Focus RS out on a test drive which was just filled up with 87 octane by the dumbest 17 year old lot boy, in Phoenix, in summer and just turn them loose and it won't blow up....there's gotta be something left on the table.
I see Mountune already has 30 upgrade items on their site for the Focus RS.
It's still Corporate America, and there is a niche where Tuners and owners have more passion for the product than the engineers and project managers that spawned it. But it is true that the Suck or the Awesome is a lot less predictable once your product is in the wild.
In reply to Tyler H:
Kevan from Ford Engineering tells me that Mountune is working directly with them and is an approved Ford Performance vendor. He even told me that their tune is waranteed by Ford Performance.
Ross and ultraclyde - My car isn't here yet; I'll post pics as soon as it arrives. As of this moment it is steaming through the Atlantic, scheduled to dock at Jacksonville 8:00pm tomorrow (Thursday) evening. If all goes well, I should have it in my hands in a couple of weeks.
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