On the Camry project suggestion in the latest GRM...

Jetta sedan vs. Gti? Unfair that both share chassis? And, aftermarket is strong? My first fun car was a1.7l rabbit I made into what I considered Gti plus.

Given the volume of sales couldn't you compare Camry, Accord, and Taurus against sportier versions of company product? Camry v. Celica/Supra, Accord v. S2000, and Taurus v. Mustang. Start with the most popular models sold(since that is what hand me down would most likely be) and see how they would fare against the "dream" model that teenager really wanted.

Vigo wrote: When i saw the title of this thread, before i even opened it, i got a little annoyed because there was a thread a while back where GRM asked for project ideas and got a large number (probably majority) votes for a 4th gen maxima and didnt even seem to seriously consider it, and now i hear mention of taking a very similar but much less cool car (the fact that 100% of maximas were v6 has much to do with this) and making a project out of it..

For me at least, the "much less cool car" is sort of the point - is a Camry good for anything other than a transportation appliance, or can one make it fast? If so, would it still get beaten by spending the money on a second car? I'm wondering if starting with a mid-2000s era Camry might handicap this even more; these cars seem to have zero aftermarket support.

Well, as far as im concerned a v6/5spd camry is already decently cool.

I kind of get what you're going for but i think the main hangup is that the elephant in the room is how much the person knows about cars.

I know a lot about cars and have done a lot of major work and can accomplish almost anything cheaper than a beginner could. In another thread i just posted that id rather buy a clean integra ls/gs and swap it and upgrade it, than buy a really nice GSR for full price. The thing is, somebody who hasnt done it before, i.e. somebody who 'has to ask...', would probably spend more money fumbling through that major work than just buying the better car.

I mean, it's an interesting question and i think could be an interesting article, but you should probably specify whether the vehicle owner has skills and experience or not, because if that is left unspecified it can make for much bigger differences in cost than anything specific to a given car.

Vigo wrote: When i saw the title of this thread, before i even opened it, i got a little annoyed because there was a thread a while back where GRM asked for project ideas and got a large number (probably majority) votes for a 4th gen maxima and didnt even seem to seriously consider it, and now i hear mention of taking a very similar but much less cool car (the fact that 100% of maximas were v6 has much to do with this) and making a project out of it..

gotta say....I 100% agree with you here. Maxima would make a much better project.

1. Probably can be found cheaper than a similar-year Camry
2. Still seen as a "soccer mom" car
3. More aftermarket (especially for the engines)
4. Marketed as 4-door sports car
5. Much more potential than a camry
6. Better V6 (any of the maxima V6s > any of the the Camry V6s)
7. Much easier to find with M/T
8. A lot of parts changeover with later models.
9. THe enthusiast community is much more active than Camry enthusiast community (is there such a thing?)

DO A MAXIMA.

4th gen or 5th gen.

and PPG pace car :)

oh, and this

belteshazzar wrote: it's complicated though. maxima's are more readily found with a 5sp. in the toyota's favor the camry comes as a wagon, except that there aren't any.

maxima came as a wagon too...I see them pop up every so often around here on CL.

i kinda forgot about those. even more obscure though.

I would also say....recently Nissan has the commercial where the guy has his new 370Z and then his wife says she's pregnant, so he goes and "stretches" it into a Maxima.

Comparo:

4th gen Maxima vs. z32 300zx

or even cheaper (and arguably more fun)

3rd gen Maxima (the best-handling maxima) vs. z31 300zx.

MadScientistMatt wrote:

Vigo wrote: When i saw the title of this thread, before i even opened it, i got a little annoyed because there was a thread a while back where GRM asked for project ideas and got a large number (probably majority) votes for a 4th gen maxima and didnt even seem to seriously consider it, and now i hear mention of taking a very similar but much less cool car (the fact that 100% of maximas were v6 has much to do with this) and making a project out of it..

For me at least, the "much less cool car" is sort of the point - is a Camry good for anything other than a transportation appliance, or can one make it fast? If so, would it still get beaten by spending the money on a second car? I'm wondering if starting with a mid-2000s era Camry might handicap this even more; these cars seem to have zero aftermarket support.

the general population thinks of the maxima (or how about 1st gen altima) as "not that cool" too. Most maximas I see are middle-aged women who basically probably wanted an infiniti i30 back in the day and had to settle haha...

irish44j wrote: gotta say....I 100% agree with you here. Maxima would make a much better project. 1. Probably can be found cheaper than a similar-year Camry 2. Still seen as a "soccer mom" car 3. More aftermarket (especially for the engines) 4. Marketed as 4-door sports car 5. Much more potential than a camry 6. Better V6 (any of the maxima V6s > any of the the Camry V6s) 7. Much easier to find with M/T 8. A lot of parts changeover with later models. 9. THe enthusiast community is much more active than Camry enthusiast community (is there such a thing?)

Several points:

As others have said, the idea behind this was "start with what you have, even with low performance potential vs. buying a second sports car". The maxima would be better for a "4 door FWD sport sedans worth a E36 M3?" article.

Also, I take issue with #6. Remember the Maxima came with a naturally aspirated VG30 originally. Total dog. Even in its best naturally aspirated form (Z32 VG30DE), it only made 222hp, required premium, and weighed a ton. That's better than a newer Camry (and also Lotus Evora) 2GR motor with ~270hp? Doubtful. Even the VQ is good, but I'd say the Camry motors are equally good. Good efficiency, good performance, good reliability.

Edit: The altima would be a good camry comparison alternative though. As boring as appliances can get. Its easily boosted too :)

irish44j wrote: 4th gen Maxima vs. z32 300zx

I'd like to see this with a low price cap, basically forcing you to keep the 300zx relatively stock. With any mods, its going to crush a 4th gen maxima everywhere but the drag strip (where they are sadly fairly close). It fits much more tire, is rwd, has SLA suspsension, lower CG, and is much smaller. It also makes 30 more hp, but I'd bet after mods the VQ would close that gap quite a bit. But... a Maxima can hold a lot more crap and gets better mileage :)

ProDarwin wrote:

irish44j wrote: gotta say....I 100% agree with you here. Maxima would make a much better project. 1. Probably can be found cheaper than a similar-year Camry 2. Still seen as a "soccer mom" car 3. More aftermarket (especially for the engines) 4. Marketed as 4-door sports car 5. Much more potential than a camry 6. Better V6 (any of the maxima V6s > any of the the Camry V6s) 7. Much easier to find with M/T 8. A lot of parts changeover with later models. 9. THe enthusiast community is much more active than Camry enthusiast community (is there such a thing?)

Several points: As others have said, the idea behind this was "start with what you have, even with low performance potential vs. buying a second sports car". The maxima would be better for a "4 door FWD sport sedans worth a E36 M3?" article. Also, I take issue with #6. Remember the Maxima came with a naturally aspirated VG30 originally. Total dog. Even in its best naturally aspirated form (Z32 VG30DE), it only made 222hp, required premium, and weighed a ton. That's better than a newer Camry (and also Lotus Evora) 2GR motor with ~270hp? Doubtful. Even the VQ is good, but I'd say the Camry motors are equally good. Good efficiency, good performance, good reliability. Edit: The altima would be a good camry comparison alternative though. As boring as appliances can get. Its easily boosted too :)

irish44j wrote: 4th gen Maxima vs. z32 300zx

I'd like to see this with a low price cap, basically forcing you to keep the 300zx relatively stock. With any mods, its going to crush a 4th gen maxima everywhere but the drag strip (where they are sadly fairly close). It fits much more tire, is rwd, has SLA suspsension, lower CG, and is much smaller. It also makes 30 more hp, but I'd bet after mods the VQ would close that gap quite a bit. But... a Maxima can hold a lot more crap and gets better mileage :)

ok, for #6 I was referencing the VQ-series engines. Or the VG vs. whatever Toyota V6 was out there around the same time.

4th gen VQ can be bumped 32hp with a $25 junkyard part..VIAS intake. I see them sitting in 5th gens every time I go to a junkyard.

a VE30DE is a hell of a lot more engine than a 3VZFE

4th gen Maxima, 5 spd, end of story.

Vigo wrote:

Chances are good that if I blow the 2.5 I will scrap the car. I only have 350 in it.

Perfectly reasonable. What kind of 'racing' do you do with it?

Dirt track with Clem sparks. It is super unofficial but fun and a cheap way to get my racing fix.

I like the concept for the article. I think the best selling cars in the US in the last 10 years or so should be the focus. IIRC you are looking at Accord, Camry, Taurus, F150, etc... That hits a HUGE batch of potential readers with information about cars they already have. This article could be a series about making what you own better that runs every issue. Heck, it would be easy to sell to vendors if you figure out a few secrets and they get to be the only one selling to that market. I think the place for cars that are already good like the Maxima or the E36 is the side bars to the articles. A "Here's all that goodness in one ready to go package" or "Can your Camry hang with Germany's finest?"

I'd like to see an F-150 hang with Germany's finest :)

Jaynen wrote: I'd like to see an F-150 hang with Germany's finest :)

Me too (of course in this example it would have to be an X5 )

This thread made me think of the Maxima that C&D did for Pal Newman back in the 80's...

Found it - Newman's Own Turbo

Turbo L28 transplant...very sleeper.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: I'm all for a GRM build up of a 90's Camry. The wagon is a good idea, but they should try to find a 2-door with a manual because I have yet to see one.

I thought that was a nice looking car, We had a flooded one at my friend's shop I wanted to get and drop on a spare G body chassis I had but I never got around to it. At the time I was told a Camry stock car was unthinkable.

i have a good friend who has a pretty fun camry 2 door 95 or 96 i think.... it has a 3mz and a 5spd. not unthinkably powerful but pretty good. and the suspension is done pretty good,

I understand why some of you would want a Maxima right off the bat, but I feel the article should be more along the lines of taking a DD beige appliance and being able to modify it into an autocrosser or track car. That's why the Camry would be a great candidate, it's the ultimate appliance. Like someone else said, taking what you have and making it a contender of some sort.

The Maxima is already labeled (by the company) as a 4-Door Sports Car and it is already performance orientated.

Whatever they choose, it will be a good article.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: I understand why some of you would want a Maxima right off the bat, but I feel the article should be more along the lines of taking a DD beige appliance and being able to modify it into an autocrosser or track car. That's why the Camry would be a great candidate, it's the ultimate appliance. Like someone else said, taking what you have and making it a contender of some sort. The Maxima is already labeled (by the company) as a 4-Door Sports Car and it is already performance orientated. Whatever they choose, it will be a good article.

True, but the "4DSC" was basically just that - marketing. The car was still fwd, still a sedan, and still nowhere near contemporary sportscars (or even sporty/euro sedans) in terms of performance. In terms of suspension/mechanicals the Maximas (especially the 4th gens) are basically just like any other mid-size Japanese sedan, but with a better engine. The suspension isn't "sport tuned," it doesn't have big swaybars, didn't come with particularly impressive wheel/tire combo, etc.

It was only a sportscar in comparison to the accord and camry, really. And back in the late 80s and early 90s that wasn't saying a whole hell of a lot.

I just suggested it because, while still a pretty pedestrian vehicle, it has some promise and some amount of aftermarket support.

That said, my parents had a 1st gen Altima when it was new. I actually thought that car drove pretty "sporty" - and at the time I was driving an 87 integra. It wasn't very powerful but the handling was very nice (I think it was an SE model). I would pic a 1st gen Alti over a Camry for this kind of "appliance" comparison, honestly.

Plus I still think they're nice looking cars (then they got uglier)

Agreed on 1st gen Altima, my sister had one and it was pretty nice to drive, reminded me of my '88 626 in everything but outright power, and I don't remember the torque steer issues like the 626 had. Plus there should be turbo kits out there for the 2.4 as well as cams and headers if boost isn't on the menu.

The Altima does okay with parts and the first and second gen cars came with the dohc version of the 2.4 engine. Brakes can be 4 wheel discs if you have an SE or find a junkyard swap. I had one of these in college and they can be made to handle decently well.

As for the Camry, they are not as rev happy as the Maxima engines in stock form, but I have yet to meet a Camry based engine that did not take well to forced induction. There is not a whole lot out there for them, but TRD has some stuff. I inherited a low mileage 2003 camry v6 for DD duty and am looking at upgrades to make it a bit more fun. At the very least, I will be robbing some suspension parts for a wrecked SE in a junkyard somewhere.

I wouls like to see a 1st or 2nd gen Maxima article as well.

BBC

1st and 2nd gen Maximas are just hard to find these days. 1st gen because they were RWD so the few still around have been snatched up. 2nd gen because...well they just weren't very memorable cars, honestly. 3rd gen is where the modern "Maxima" really started IMO.