Porsche 996 alternative

Tom_Spangler said:

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Audi R8.

For 996 money?  I'd like to see that.

Well that's kind of the problem, the 996 is basically fully depreciated. You can find other cars that are equal, but having them also be at the very bottom of their depreciation is hard, especially when you cut out Corvettes, all Asian makes, cars with auto boxes and pony cars. There are a number of AMG 63 cars that are riding the bubble of scrap value and are fantastic drivers cars, but they have two pedals. 

Boxster S if you don't need the back seats.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I'm not cutting out all Japanese cars, just ricers. I prefer sophisticated speed to a lot of noise and a harsh ride. I've never found vettes to be of any quality, and don't relly like the way they "feel."

In reply to markwemple :

Is the NSX already out of the price range, I haven't been keeping track. They"re spectacular. 

Sounds like you might just need to accept that you've painted yourself into a 996 size/shape/priced box.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

They are. By a factor of 2-3 (assuming a $20k budget - $40k-$45k buys you a somewhat leggy automatic these days)

In reply to BoxheadCougarTim :

That sucks. They were within $5k or so of aircooled cars back when I was cross shopping them and bought my 911. Now that I think about it, I guess they"re still within $5k, it's just that the whole world is crazy. 

You can always hold onto a good 996 and hope it does what the aircooled cars did?

mazdeuce - Seth said:

In reply to BoxheadCougarTim :

That sucks. They were within $5k or so of aircooled cars back when I was cross shopping them and bought my 911. Now that I think about it, I guess they"re still within $5k, it's just that the whole world is crazy. 

You can always hold onto a good 996 and hope it does what the aircooled cars did?

Except that the purists will deny credence due to the front end fascia alone.....IMHO their loss.....

I agree that NSX would be awesome but 40 to 50k

In reply to 759NRNG :

But people were saying that about 993's a decade ago. Nobody would ever collect them and the best thing you could do with one is pull the 3.6 and G50 and throw it in a "real" aircooled car, and here we are. The 996's day is coming.

Guess you're staying in that 996 until you up that budget. 

mazdeuce - Seth said:

In reply to 759NRNG :

But people were saying that about 993's a decade ago. Nobody would ever collect them and the best thing you could do with one is pull the 3.6 and G50 and throw it in a "real" aircooled car, and here we are. The 996's day is coming.

 They've (996) already started going up. You used to be able to get a really nice one for high teens with not a lot of miles on them. Now they're in the mid 20s and c4s in the upper 20s lower 30s.

In reply to yupididit :

Could be. Then probably a 996 tt or 997/2

I wouldn't dismiss the modern pony cars unless you've driven one.  Certainly you can't complain about the brakes, they are all available with giant Brembos.

But anyhow, it does sound like you want a 996 and are trying to make sure there's nothing out there that you're missing.

Driven5 said:

Sounds like you might just need to accept that you've painted yourself into a 996 size/shape/priced box.

Hence my "be content" comment earlier. 

I'll elaborate.

This is just my opinion but based on the OP's comments in this and previous threads he seems to really enjoy his 996. Not only the performance but also the prestige of the brand. That performance comes with a certain character and specialness. And I can't disagree with that. There is something special about a Porsche. 

So we come to the problem.

There are cars that have that something special and will match or beat the performance capabilities, but not for the price. 

There are cars that will match or beat the performance capabilities for the price but they are missing that certain characteristic that he wants. 

So for what he seems to want in a car there is nothing that combines everything unless some concessions are willing to be made.

Thus, be content.

markwemple said:

In reply to yupididit :

Could be. Then probably a 996 tt or 997/2

Double that budget lol

That sucks. They were within $5k or so of aircooled cars back when I was cross shopping them and bought my 911. Now that I think about it, I guess they"re still within $5k, it's just that the whole world is crazy. 

Aircooled 911s and NSXs are 2 of the main reasons i bought my 996. The third reason is the Ferrari Mondial, believe it or not. Back when i first started thinking about buying them i could find the cheapest of each around 15k (i've actually seen a running NSX for 7k. I'm also stupid).  Then they all shot up and each is now a ~40k car at the low end. The 996 was fairly far down my list, but once those other cars went up much faster than my budget did, it sort of forced my hand to buy something i liked before i couldn't (again).  

Now, there's plenty of argument that 996s will never do what those other cars did. Rough 996s are still coming down. Nice ones are going up slowly. Mine's about in the middle, but it's not an investment play in any way. 

I do think an R8 is a decent analogue in a different price bracket. Something i'll throw in that's more affordable is the Lotus Evora. They are also 40k cars but should still be coming down. The slowest ones are about as quick as a 996 and they seem a little sportier/harder edged than a base Carrera, although i haven't driven one yet. 

As far as Corvettes, i understand excluding them. I've driven c3/4/5/6. Only the c5 and  base c6 would i compare to a 996. If you actually wanted to mod a car for track duty, either of them would beat the 996 in my mind. But, if you wanted it primarily for street duty and were picky about interior styling, perceived quality and ride quality, they fall short to the 996 in my experience. When i was shopping my 996 and realized i could get one for the same price as a c5, it was no contest. Caveat: I won't be paying labor expenses for my future 996 repairs. That could change others' calculus somewhat. 

What most people don't seem to realize is that a 996, driven regularly, is almost as reliable as a camry. No other car in it's class comes close. Even the e39 m5 and rs6 are maintenance pigs in comparison. The cars it is compared to don't come close for dd work.

markwemple said:

In reply to yupididit :

Could be. Then probably a 996 tt or 997/2

That’s exactly what I would do....pump up that budget and go 996tt.

In reply to Nick Comstock :

Amazing how mental gymnastics work. Sometimes there are many options. Sometimes only a few. 

I will say that once you really live with a 911, I dont think any other car will do, probably. They are unique. Exotic, yet reliable. A modern dd sports car thst you can still wrench on. the engine in the rear creates a unique experience and one I enjoy. Although, Ive had them, on and off, As DDs for over 30 years so familiarity does come into play. 

markwemple said:

What most people don't seem to realize is that a 996, driven regularly, is almost as reliable as a camry. No other car in it's class comes close. Even the e39 m5 and rs6 are maintenance pigs in comparison. The cars it is compared to don't come close for dd work.

You are the only person I've ever heard say that, and I really want to believe.  A 911 in a nice shade of bland would match the rest of my Toyota fleet nicely.

In reply to Tyler H :

I have a 2005 997 that has 104000 miles on it and is driven everyday.  If you use a 996 or any 911 regularly, they are incredibly reliable.  I have had 1 unexpected mechanical issue and that was a coil pack that went bad.  Otherwise it's been gas, oil, and lots of tires.  The low mileage garage queens are the ones to watch out for

You want a car with power, braking, handling, and ergonomics to match a 911, that also costs no more than $20k (used), and can be daily driven without much compromise?

The E46 M3 is the obvious choice. No real reason to avoid them. Not sure what the prices are these days, but E90 M3 and Z3 M-Coupe might be $20k by now. Also look into the M5, both E34 and E39 models.

My old Lancer Evo VIII also met that description. In an HPDE Instructor Group setting, I could pass regular 996s all day long, but not GT3s (obviously). That was with a 100% stock car on street tires. Once you start modding, the sky’s the limit. For me, steering feel and ergonomics were better than the 996, shifting and braking quality were about the same, and suspension was a little worse (the 996 was more supple over rough roads). My Evo was also dead reliable over 60k miles of mixed street, track, and winter-beater use. Even the stock clutch lasted over 50k miles. Nothing went wrong ... until the DEALER put the wrong lube in the transfer case and killed it (they replaced it under warranty).

The only other car I’ve driven that comes close to the power/brakes/handling/prestige package of a 996 for about $20k would be a second-gen Lotus Esprit S4S with the turbo 4-banger. Not really suitable as a daily driver, though, because they have minimal trunk space. Feels a lot more special than a Porsche. 

Furious_E said:

Why doesn't the Vette count? 

The same reason all Japanese cars are excluded?

I was thinking S2k or original NSX...

What about a 370Z? They are fun cars, look good, have the Japanese reliability and can easily be found under $20K. Just add an oil cooler.

Another option would be a Z4 M Roadster. Pretty hard to find but I have seen them in the mid $20K range.

I am a 996 owner, but those are the other cars I would consider if I were replacing it. Oh...and a C6. If you haven't driven a C6 before, do it. THey are miles ahead of the C5.