Porterfield R4-1: anyone use it?

My understanding of this pad based on what I've read so far:

1. Performs better than the R4-S at all temps
2. Makes more dust
3. Prone to noise when cold, but quiet or silent when warm

Is that accurate?

Any other thoughts, comparisons to other pads, etc.?

What are you wanting out of the pad? Novice track day? Experienced HPDE? AutoX/Street only? WHat tires will you be using?

I'm partial to Carbotech's myself.

Don't want to get too much into background info because I don't want to derail the thread. However, I will say I'm not interested in this pad out of a need for balls-out capability. I'm not even sure I'm faster than the OE pad, honestly (though I do seem to wear it out awfully quickly). I'm mainly just thinking, if the R4-1 works better than the R4-S at all temps, and if I can tolerate the extra dust/noise/cost, why not go for it?

The reviews I've read on the R4-1 have been positive, but they're few and far between. I called Porterfield and their feedback was basically what I posted above. Trying to get some more feedback from people who have actually used the pad.

I used to use Porterfield R4 for track days, including the drive to and from, since switched to Hawk DTC-60's and they're a much better track pad with better street manners too. I know, not quite the same, but if you're wanting them for a track pad that you also street drive, just save yourself the headache and go with a dedicated set of track pads and swap them before and after. As far as I've ever heard, there are no pads that do both really well, some are acceptable at either, depending on the car, but none are truly great at both.

IamFODI wrote: Don't want to get too much into background info because I don't want to derail the thread. However, I will say I'm not interested in this pad out of a need for balls-out capability. I'm not even sure I'm faster than the OE pad, honestly (though I do seem to wear it out awfully quickly). I'm mainly just thinking, if the R4-1 works better than the R4-S at all temps, and if I can tolerate the extra dust/noise/cost, why not go for it? The reviews I've read on the R4-1 have been positive, but they're few and far between. I called Porterfield and their feedback was basically what I posted above. Trying to get some more feedback from people who have actually used the pad.

Well if you won't provide the background info so people can make suggestions on what works in certain circumstances, then just use Porterfields temp/.mu charts and try them out.

Since you are comparing the R4-1 to the R4-S which is a street pad I'm assuming you will not be doing track days. If you can tolerate more dust/noise/cost and won't be putting a lot of prolonged heat into them then i'd say give the R4-1's a shot.

If you will be doing track days I can give you feedback on the R4 vs. R4-E's as I've used both.

I use the R4-1 as rear pads during HPDE in my '79 BMW 3-series coupe. I have not used the R4-S so I can't comment. I run them on black wheels that I never clean so I can't give you a comment on dust either. They are a bit noisy when cold and quiet when hot. Porterfield is the only outfit making track pads for the rears on the car.

FYI, I track 3 different cars in 3 different weight groups (2.4k#, 3.1k#, and 3.6k#). I've run Hawk DTC-60s, Pagid Yellows and Blues, PFC-01, PFC-08, Porterfield, and stock BMW, plus some weird German stuff I can't even remember and even EBC Green Stuff.

Cost no object, I like the PFC-01 (now the 11s). Incredible stopping torque if I'm running sticky-enough tires to take advantage of it. If the budget is fat but I'm still looking to stretch it a bit, PFC-08. Good longevity, not as much bite but incredible release.

BUT I am finding plain old StopTech Street Performance pads to be a super value proposition. They are around $75 a set and I can get them off Amazon Prime. They don't melt, even on sizeable tracks like Summit Main or VIR with the heavy car. And they are more pad than the tires can work with until I get into 200 TW category. Quiet on the street and don't really need any special bedding steps.

While I run the R4 on vintage racers, I tried the R4-S on a high performance street car I own and have been pleased. I can't see any reason to switch to a pad with the qualities you describe unless the R4-S are inadequate, and I can't see them being inadequate for street use. What do you want them for?

Thanks for the advice and the offers for detailed help, everyone. Really appreciate it!

My car is a 2011 RX-8 R3. Street-driven only (for now), though I'm very enthusiastic when circumstances permit, and they permit fairly frequently when and where I drive. In the brakes, I'd ideally want slightly more initial bite and a firmer pedal. But performance-wise, I've had no complaints.

The car has RacingBrake 2-piece rotors up front, and I'm having chronic issues with uneven pad transfer with the OE pad. RacingBrake had initially told me the OE pad should be fine; now they're saying it might be too soft. Porterfield is among the brands they list as "compatible" with their rotors, so for that and other reasons I had gravitated toward the R4-S. But then I read some reviews on RX8Club claiming poor initial bite with that pad, and noticed that the R4-1 has a higher mu at all temps per Porterfield. Hence the request for feedback about the R4-1.

I did get a chance to speak with people at Porterfield recently. They said that at low temps, the R4-1 will not only make more noise and dust than the R4-S, but it'll also wear faster. All of this plus the price difference is making me lean back toward the R4-S. The only slight hang-up I have is the thing about initial bite.

Before anyone asks: yes, I have considered ditching the rotors for OE or something else. Will do that in a heartbeat if pad choice doesn't fix the problem.

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

The car I run the R4-S on has floating rotors. The compound has plenty of initial bite and I have never had them near fade with a hard driven 3200 lb. car. I wouldn't think you need anything more.

Good to hear.

FWIW, according to RacingBrake, the issue with their rotors stems from the harder-than-normal alloy they use. Much better longevity, but also poor control of pad transfer. Basically, the nicer a pad is to rotors, and/or the more prone to uneven pad transfer it is, the less likely it is to work well with these rotors.

Porterfield calls their compounds "rotor friendly", but both Porterfield and RacingBrake claim the combo has worked, so...

What's the etiquette around thread bumps here?  Hope I'm not running afoul of it by posting an update.

I ended up going with the R4-S, and regretting it.  Bite is worse than OE; wear rate seems MUCH worse.  Not sure what I'll be looking at next, but would still love to hear from anyone who has experience with the R4-1.

I would guess that you are out of the temperature range either high or low.  Get some caliper or rotor temperature paint and see what your temps are.

Also, are you bedding in the pads properly?

In my experience Porterfield R4 and R4-S series pads have gentle initial bite and wear quickly on the street. The only difference is that the R4s don't work well at all in the cold and that the R4-S's burn up on the track. The track pads that they sell under the Raybestos brand name are marvelous though. I use ST-43s on my race car and the bite / consistency is amazing. Completely unstreetable but amazing on a racetrack.

Since you're using the car primarily for street use, have you considered going to a dedicated high performance street pad? The Hawk HPS 5.0 are pretty decent street pads with good bite and reasonable rotor wear. They're useless on a racetrack but honestly, you'll want different pads for track use anyway.

I ran the R4S on the forte. 2700lb fwd car with adequate sized brakes (11.2” fronts and 10.9” tears). 2 seasons of autox and a track session. Never had fade. Never felt bad. Gave great feedback but dusted a little more than I wanted. I put 40k mikes on them before selling the car. 

Mill be buying a set for the truck front and rear this spring. 

I run R4-S on my 82 Datsun fair weather car.  I've also done two HPDEs on them so far and have been pleased, though I am still in the novice group.   I was expecting more initial bite than they provide, but at least they're consistent.  And they're plenty dusty.

We have Hawk HPS on the wife's Subaru Forester.  Great initial bite and very confidence inspiring on the street.  Obviously its never going to see the track, nor will it likely be driven very spirited, but she likes the extra confidence.

wvumtnbkr said:

I would guess that you are out of the temperature range either high or low.  Get some caliper or rotor temperature paint and see what your temps are.

 

Also, are you bedding in the pads properly?

Well it ain't high for sure (other than during the one bed-in run I did), and I have yet to hear from anyone including Porterfield that street driving might net too low a temp range for the R4-S...

Interesting idea on the temp paint.  Might try that.

Had similar results with and without bedding.  Porterfield says it's not necessary for their pads, though RacingBrake recommended it, for whatever that's worth.

boxedfox said:

Since you're using the car primarily for street use, have you considered going to a dedicated high performance street pad? The Hawk HPS 5.0 are pretty decent street pads with good bite and reasonable rotor wear. They're useless on a racetrack but honestly, you'll want different pads for track use anyway.

That's what the R4-S is supposed to be, no?  And the R4-1 is marketed as a "race" pad but apparently has better friction at all temps.

Definitely considered the HPS 5.0.  That's basically the only other pad on my list unless/until I ditch these damn rotors.

For what you want, I'd recommend EBC Redstuff. A bit sharper than a stock pad with none of the usual downsides of a performance pad.

GameboyRMH said:

For what you want, I'd recommend EBC Redstuff. A bit sharper than a stock pad with none of the usual downsides of a performance pad.

Noted.  Thanks.

For what you want, I'd recommend EBC Redstuff. A bit sharper than a stock pad with none of the usual downsides of a performance pad.

Agree - and low dust to boot.  Use them on the Solstice coupe. 

Thanks again to everyone who has chimed in!  Really appreciate the discussion.

Had an update worth posting.  I sold the Racing Brake rotors and went back to OE, but kept the same R4-S pads.  Most importantly, the pulsation problem seems to be gone for good.  Hard to overstate how nice it is that the middle pedal no longer makes my car feel like a paint shaker.  But beyond that, initial bite and pedal feel seem better.  I can see what people who like the R4-S are talking about.  It has really progressive response that makes it super easy to drive smoothly; torque isn't amazing, but there's enough performance to get the job done on the street.  Still not quite what I want, but good enough that I'm no longer counting the miles until the pads wear out.

I'm no longer bound by the silly compatibility issues of Racing Brake's rotors, which opens the field up considerably.  However, the R4-1 is still high on the list, so any feedback would be appreciated!