Real quick: I bought a Yukon Denali really cheap and have issues with all the options. As odd as it sounds, they make me psychologically uncomfortable.
My plan is to acquire an E39 and am intrigued by a Spec E36 car that's got two 1st place and one second place finish and it's registered and driven to the tracks, some 11 hours to and from.
Anywho, the owner stripped the car for the track. Though he took out the A/C (I wouldn't) he was able to remove many yards of wiring, many pounds of parts, and many 100's of dollars in parts that can fail and are nothing but fancy options.
I was very happy in my Suzuki Samurai every day with just a stereo and no options whatsoever. I'm older now but that part of me hasn't changed.
Does anyone else think that you can drive a car (2000-ish BMW 5 Series) but get rid of a good chunk of the options I wish were never installed?
I understand that many of you won't get why I want a stripped BMW. Maybe it sounds counterintuitive or plain ol' dumb but I swear this is how I am.
My ex-Patrol Bronco had rubber floors, roll up windows and levers not buttons. God do I miss that in a car.
Quote from a forum member regarding the street-legal Spec E36 build:
"Rob, I was curious, what "exactly" are you getting rid of in the car. I do NOT have a spec car build I am trying, but I did want to rid my car of some un-needed items or extras, if any."
That guy knows what I'm talking about!
If you are worried about an option breaking, then dont fix it when it does.
What options do you want to remove?
In reply to Slippery:
I'm afraid I don't know the extent of things that CAN be removed.
What I want is is fuel injection and abs. A/C is up the air, I don't use it much. I'd like to just use the key to unlock the doors, no power locks. Carpet and seats and door panels. Engine, manual trans and no traction control.
Basically a Spec car able to be registered/inspected with a factory back seat and belts. Decent racing buckets up front (loved 'em in my Samurai).
If BMW is a Sport-Luxury car, I want to dump the luxury parts. This wouldn't make sense in a Mercedes.
Think of a P71 vs a Grand Marquis.
You can use the key regardless to unlock the doors. Traction control is a piece of cake, its just a throttle body in front of the throttle body.
There is not much else you can remove. I gutted my e36, but I still have power windows, etc.
I would not touch the wiring unless you are removing a bunch of stuff. Radio harness is most likely separate and can be removed.
Just buy an e39 and enjoy it, dont get hanged up on what can break.
In reply to Slippery:
You say you've gutted yours. How far did you go?
I suppose I want to have a drivable shell and add in only what I need to get from A to B.
I'm dreaming of a car that was never made. Remember the 60's when you ordered a bench seat and deleted the radio and everything else. Just a base model and a big motor.
I went down to 2700#s from 3300.
I removed all carpet and insulation.
Swaped seats for aftermarket buckets.
Removed rear seats.
Removed sunroof and tray
No traction control.
No airbags
Other than that, it still has radio with front speakers only and AC. Power windows too.
From 1998-up traction control is integrated with the throttle body on E39s and cannot be removed; if any part of the system is faulty or removed it throws the car into limp mode and will run like ass. Ask me how I know...
The E39 was BMW's first really CANBUS-heavy volume seller so you may have some challenges on your hands. It would be much easier if there were lots of stripper models with manual locks, windows and HVAC running around like there are in Europe. There are also airbags in the seats so if you remove them the entire SRS system will freak out.
If you really want a stone-reliable BMW find an E28 or E34 with the M30 engine. I have owned a crap ton of BMWs and the newer ones just don't hold up the same way.
I Love my gutted cars. All that lther e36m3 just dilutes the experience.
In reply to sesto elemento:
So you get it! I'm sitting outside work right now in my Denali surrounded by heated leather seats, Bose, and power everything.
And I'm not half as comfortable as I should be.
Take my dream log cabin: strong and rugged. I'd never ruin the experience with marble tile floors and chandeliers and a bunch of luxury items that don't belong.
The issue you are going to have is that you can remove the options but you can not fully remove the control systems in the vehicle.
In reply to Slippery:
If it seats five (not necessarily comfortably) I'm in.
In reply to dean1484:
So a 2000-ish 5 Series cannot be an engine, a manual transmission and rwd and little else (enough to pass inspection)?
Pity.
Sounds like you really want an e28, maybe an e34.
pointofdeparture wrote:
From 1998-up traction control is integrated with the throttle body on E39s and cannot be removed; if any part of the system is faulty or removed it throws the car into limp mode and will run like ass. Ask me how I know...
The E39 was BMW's first really CANBUS-heavy volume seller so you may have some challenges on your hands. It would be much easier if there were lots of stripper models with manual locks, windows and HVAC running around like there are in Europe. There are also airbags in the seats so if you remove them the entire SRS system will freak out.
If you really want a stone-reliable BMW find an E28 or E34 with the M30 engine. I have owned a crap ton of BMWs and the newer ones just don't hold up the same way.
This kind of illustrates what I would be concerned about- when you take options off, what do you replace them with?
So on the '98 and up cars as was pointed out- it's got electronic throttle and much of the TC is integrated into the ECU. What do you replace that with?
Or electric windows- are there manual window mechanisms out there you can use?
Etc.
If there's a way to replace the option or be able to live without it, done.
(in other words- a +1 to pointofdeparture's post)
In reply to alfadriver:
I've been watching YouTube (that's my first mistake) of videos with various cars but BMWs in particular. Maybe it's drifting, maybe it's 800hp cars doing burnouts in a parking lot. Maybe even semi-amateur rally cars.
They all started out as street cars. Forget the ones with LS Swaps. The cars I'm looking at have factory-issued engines or at the least, a larger displacement engine from within the family.
How are these people taking early to mid 2000's cars and stripping all but the most basic hardware and having all-too-much fun with them?
Some are street legal and daily driven!
In reply to ebonyandivory:
I'm not saying it's not possible to do it. But in some cases, you have to figure out how to replace the items you take off. There's a good chance that the 800hp cars have totally new ECU's, which negates any worries about traction control interactions. It does add a new ECU, and how to tune that engine with it.
Some removals complicates things more than others, which require more creative solutions.
edit- don't forget that I had an idea of very de-contenting a Miata, and even tweaking the styling some to look and act even more retro. It's not 100% straight forward.
Slippery wrote:
I went down to 2700#s from 3300.
I removed all carpet and insulation.
Swaped seats for aftermarket buckets.
Removed rear seats.
Removed sunroof and tray
No traction control.
No airbags
Other than that, it still has radio with front speakers only and AC. Power windows too.
Speaking of, how much would you like to update your build thread sometime? Haha. I was exploring GRM yesterday and came across yours. We have almost identical builds, so I'm curious to see where you are at!
Buy a '97 e39 and go at it.
I am just not sure of what your intentions are. If you want to track it, then you will not be able to seat 5 people in it.
Go on Bimmerforums under track builds. Look for the gutted e39 M5 build that was later crashed.
It can be done, but you will not enjoy the car in the street.
I dont know if you are trying to simplify or lower the weight. The later can be done, the other will be too expensive and not worth it in my opinion.
golfduke wrote:
Slippery wrote:
I went down to 2700#s from 3300.
I removed all carpet and insulation.
Swaped seats for aftermarket buckets.
Removed rear seats.
Removed sunroof and tray
No traction control.
No airbags
Other than that, it still has radio with front speakers only and AC. Power windows too.
Speaking of, how much would you like to update your build thread sometime? Haha. I was exploring GRM yesterday and came across yours. We have almost identical builds, so I'm curious to see where you are at!
I am a slacker! I did a lot more after that. I need to update it.
My biggest problem is that its a pain to attach pics and type in this forum. I usually do it in word and then copy/paste.
Slippery wrote:
It can be done, but you will not enjoy the car in the street.
I'm trying to simplify. Weight loss is a bonus and only makes a good chassis better.
Remember, for years I drove Suzuki Samurais with no top, no doors, no carpets, no tailgate and the windshield folded flat (at times). Sitting in ABS racing seats with thin snap-on covers and a stock am-fm cassette with only kick panel speakers, manual steering, non-boosted brakes...
Even with howling 33" Super Swampers and all. I was never happier driving.
Saying I won't be happy driving on the street isn't factoring in who I am.
I have a similar dream and am working to build that in a e30.
However this being GRM let me toss out another option of achieving this. Instead of starting with something like an e39 that already has heated steering wheel, fancy whiz bang traction control, CANBUS, digital climate control, park distance sensors etc etc. and then stripping all that out to leave you with a fuel injected modern engine and modern ABS.
Go the other way, start with a e34 or e36 which doesn't have most any of those options?
BMW 6 cylinders are basically lego's up to the newest generation and even the later M54 motors from late e39/e46's have been thoroughly hacked to be a nearly plug/play affair with just the bare minimum amount of wires to run the engine.
e46m3 (Teves MK60) ABS can be re-wired as a stand alone system and represents some of the better ABS tech out right now. Even Porsche 996 guys swap over to this system on some race cars.
So now you've got a stand alone modern BMW engine option as well as a stand alone modern BMW ABS option. Seems much easier to transplant both of those into a car that has only the creature comforts you desire rather than de-contenting a car with all those creature comforts integrated into the chassis harness.
I think the easiest way to do what you want to do is to strip all the wiring and the computers and go with an aftermarket ECU. You'll probably have to wire the window motors to new switches or take your plan to its logical conclusion and use pull straps.
I hear you... FWIW and back to thread relevance, BMWs post 97 are HEAVILY electonically integrated, and I'd venture to say that even E36/E39's of all years have a lot of comfort modules and devices that love to malfunction when you remove something...
My best advice is to go old. E28's and E34's are good suggestions, but you'll pay a premium for one that's not been beat to crap. It'll be nicely primitive, reliable, fun, and unique.
You can take an E36/E39/E46 and gut the crap out of them and still get them plated. I have a street legal and inspected 2700# 97 M3 with fixed seats, half-cage, no interior, no ac or power steering, no radio and no sunroof. It's fun to drive... to/from the track... on occasion. But driving it to work every day would absolutely drive me nuts. It's rattly, harsh, loud, cold or hot, uncomfortable, and did I mention loud?
So I'd hesitate to go that route unless you are either a masochist, or just really really really love driving in a droney paint shaker. I did it for a few months when my DD went down. It was fun for the first 2 weeks, but I was counting the days until I could get it back and sit in a seat that actually reclined a bit.
