So, test ad tune next weekend. Registered and paid for both days.
Its supposed to be really berkeleying cold. 20s-40s for the high according to the forecast.
I have spanking new (75 miles) federal rs-rr 200tw tires on my car.
What am i looking at? Any reason to be scared of it? Any damage to the tires?
Trying and failing to find the picture of R-compounds that had the sidewall rubber crack like glass just from the car sitting outside overnight in below freezing temps.
Yes there will be damage to the tires if you run them in those temps.
Maybe a phone call to Federal?
AnthonyGS said:Maybe a phone call to Federal?
E36 M3.
I honestly hadn't thought of that.
Is there a tech line number?
I had a set of re71r and a set of azinas get nasty sidewall cracks from below freezing weather.
Professor_Brap said:I had a set of re71r and a set of azinas get nasty sidewall cracks from below freezing weather.
Out of curiosity, just stored below freezing, or driven below freezing?
I'd be more concerned about lack of traction - sticky tires tend to lose their stickiness in cold temperatures.
In reply to fatallightning :
Stored below freezing
They will probably sustain damage from the temps alone and will be extremely sketchy to drive on. I would try to source a set of more suitable tires
It's actually the outer parts of the tread and the shoulders that crack first. Looks like this. Pretty innocuous until you realize that it goes all the way down to the belts:
This was from several nights in below freezing temps though, not just one. And the cracking didn't occur until I tried to roll the car with the tyre under-inflated (~15 psi). The two rears (which still had over 25 psi in them) looked fine.
Dusterbd13-michael said:AnthonyGS said:Maybe a phone call to Federal?
E36 M3.
I honestly hadn't thought of that.
Is there a tech line number?
I don't know, but they ought to have tech support that knows the operating specs for each of their tires.
I've done a lot of looking into this because our AZ mountain climate often has reasonable daytime highs mid-winter, but very cold overnights and early mornings.
Best answer: call the manufacturer, who will most likely tell you not to drive on them.
From all the calls I've made, plus some early morning drives on both R comps and ~200TW tires, if they are stored above 50*F (garage, etc.), driving on them will keep them warm and you most likely will not *damage* them. That said, they won't be very grippy. If the tires have to start from 30-40*F, I wouldn't drive on them... this is the circumstance that will likely damage them.
A while back, I was forced to store our NA in the trailer over part of the winter. The low temps (many nights in the 20s, and some in the teens) killed the NT01s on the car. No visible damage, but no grip ever again.
FWIW, the manufacturers even recommend against driving regular summer tires (Mich P4S, ECS, etc.) in freezing weather. I've done a fair bit of driving summer tires in dry freezing temps without any adverse issues, excepting reduced grip.
Dusterbd13-michael said:AnthonyGS said:Maybe a phone call to Federal?
E36 M3.
I honestly hadn't thought of that.
Is there a tech line number?
370 Amapola Ave, Suite 215, Torrance, CA 90501
P: (310) 328-1888
F: (310) 328-1188
E: info@federaltire.com
www.federaltireusa.com
The number of autocrosses I have been too where the day started below 40f is a very high number. I've never run anything over 200tw.
Have things changed a lot in recent years, or is it more a CYA thing on the manufacturer's part?
All of the real examples I've seen of tires cracking due to freezing is from temps well below NC wintertime temps.
But yes, expect very low grip on the first run or two.
Yeah what? Freezing temps can damage a "street" tire?
I know the tires are an arms race now, but DOT should be better than that. Freezing temps can happen overnight well into June and early as October in many parts of the US. Tires that suddenly self destruct because of freezing seem like they should absolutely not be made road legal.
Also, while I've never raced on a7s in below freezing weather, I've certiantly stored them below freezing and they haven't shown ill effects...
In reply to ProDarwin :
They're actually fine when you're running them. Low grip but otherwise fine. It's storing them in cold temps that kill them. Especially if they are on the car.
Robbie said:Yeah what? Freezing temps can damage a "street" tire?
My Continental ECS (summer only) tires specifically say that driving on them below 20 degrees will damage them and it will not be covered by warranty. I think that's pretty reasonable on a summer only tire. If it's below 20 in the summer something is very wrong.
dculberson said:Robbie said:Yeah what? Freezing temps can damage a "street" tire?
My Continental ECS (summer only) tires specifically say that driving on them below 20 degrees will damage them and it will not be covered by warranty. I think that's pretty reasonable on a summer only tire. If it's below 20 in the summer something is very wrong.
On TR, the warning is for 40F, kinda. Weird wording... if you don't go below 20F, then its fine, but if you do you need to go back up to 40F minimum? But they put that warning on all max perf. summer tires. It really feels like a cover their ass thing.
Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.
My car came with Pilot Sport 4s on it, which have been on it year round for the last 16 months or so. Lots of people around here rock ECS year round also. Sub 20 is pretty rare though.
In reply to ProDarwin :
I believe the difference is that traction is limited below 40F, but the tires get damaged below 20F. But I'm not the manufacturer so take that as worth what you paid for it!
For one day they'll be fine. Parking the car outside overnight the night before would probably have a bigger effect on the tires. And FWIW those aren't r comps, they're 200TW street tires. Actual r comps (hoosier A7, etc) I would probably avoid running in those temps.
In reply to dps214 :
They are gummier than the R comps from 20 years ago, which one could genuinely daily drive on if you didn't mind heat cycling expensive rubber.
Knurled. said:In reply to dps214 :
They are gummier than the R comps from 20 years ago, which one could genuinely daily drive on if you didn't mind heat cycling expensive rubber.
I'll DD on them when it's nice out. My drive home is pretty entertaining.
As opposed to "OMG the manual says this" I have personal experience driving R888s in freezing temps. The tires lived in the garage, one track day, I left the house when it was 25° degrees outside. And drove 40 miles to the track, the first session it was still hovering around 32°
You know what happened? It took an extra lap to get the tires up to temp. That was it.
I've also driven Star Specs in snow (not by choice).
Just because "I did it once and nothing happened" doesn't mean it can't happen. I'd be most concerned with tires that are cold-soaked, not tires that start warm.
Here's a warning for the Yokohama Fleva. That's a 300TW summer tire. Turns out that summer is not winter.
Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
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