Don't "overtire" a rally-X car. If you are going to use rally tires, they are heavy.
With a 2.2 4-banger, I would try to find a rally tire that is closer to a 195/65R15. Non-turbo Subaru guys like that size. The turbo guys tend to run 205/65R15 or 215's and you car just won't have the power to turn those.
Even better find some 14's like a 185/65R14 - Yoko's are available in this size. I have 8 of them in my garage!
NGTD wrote: Don't "overtire" a rally-X car. If you are going to use rally tires, they are heavy. With a 2.2 4-banger, I would try to find a rally tire that is closer to a 195/65R15. Non-turbo Subaru guys like that size.
That's still too big for a non turbo Subaru IMO...
irish44j wrote: You need to cage that RX7 and do some stage with it, Pete :)
I barely fit as it is, there's no way I'd fit with a rally seat and a cage. I did buy the GTI with an eye towards rallysprints though. It'd be cheaper to buy a sorted car than to build, of course.
But jeez, I'd get bored and my mind would wander if I was on stage for more than about 90 seconds.
Knurled wrote:NGTD wrote: Don't "overtire" a rally-X car. If you are going to use rally tires, they are heavy. With a 2.2 4-banger, I would try to find a rally tire that is closer to a 195/65R15. Non-turbo Subaru guys like that size.That's still too big for a non turbo Subaru IMO...
You are probably right. The issue is that most people that are not on the sharp end of the field are buying used tires and the smaller sizes are hard to find.
In reply to NGTD:
The guys not on the sharp end are on old used tires of the wrong size... Cause or effect?
My times improved dramatically when I bought actual new tires. In the right size for the car.
Late to the party on this one, lots of good info/guidance so far but let me see if i can help you out. For reference my buddy and I run an Escort GT in SF up the the Detroit Region under the "Team Effort Motorsports" banner https://www.facebook.com/teameffortmotorsports/?fref=ts
1) Strip all unnecessary weight Yep, always a good idea
2) Strut brace, probably home made meh, not going to hurt you here but won't be a big difference maker either. There are other things more worth your time
3) Skid plate Not a bad idea but new shocks/slightly stiffer springs should keep you from dragging anything unless this car has some low-hanging accessories
4) Port and polish not worth it, spray some carb cleaner down there if the parts are gummed up and call it good
5) Cage, probably a simple four point. We have access to a bender and will make this ourselves a simple 4 point cage will add weight, but it woudl also be nice to have a harness bar, plus it does add a modicum of safety in case things get tipsy. I'd go the middle-route and just install a harness-bar if you can't attach harnesses to the rear parcel-shelf
6) A decent seat with bolster support and harness, probably an expired set from a drag racer friend.yep, good idea
7) We kicked around the idea of welding the diff, is this a good or bad idea? This car doesn't have a title so it doesn't see any street time. it can work but you have to adjust your driving style accordingly. Basically you drive a welded diff car using LOTS of throttle and copious amount of left foot braking. it can be fast if you know how to drive it, but also sloppy because that style of driving usually involves hitting a lot of cones
I'm basically going to echo what Pete (knurled) already said here;
Buy good shocks (KRB GR2's are always a safe bet) Buy good tires (Firestone Winterforces or General Altimax Arctics are great choices if you don't want to spend for rally tires) Make sure the car is in good working order (fluids are fresh, no loose/broken suspension pieces,bushings are in decent shape, motor runs well, not broken/worn motor mounts, brakes function properly, etc.) Go party, wheel time will help you more than anything
Matt_the_Wolfe wrote: Late to the party on this one, lots of good info/guidance so far but let me see if i can help you out. For reference my buddy and I run an Escort GT in SF up the the Detroit Region under the "Team Effort Motorsports" banner https://www.facebook.com/teameffortmotorsports/?fref=ts 1) Strip all unnecessary weight Yep, always a good idea 2) Strut brace, probably home made meh, not going to hurt you here but won't be a big difference maker either. There are other things more worth your time 3) Skid plate Not a bad idea but new shocks/slightly stiffer springs should keep you from dragging anything unless this car has some low-hanging accessories 4) Port and polish not worth it, spray some carb cleaner down there if the parts are gummed up and call it good 5) Cage, probably a simple four point. We have access to a bender and will make this ourselves a simple 4 point cage will add weight, but it woudl also be nice to have a harness bar, plus it does add a modicum of safety in case things get tipsy. I'd go the middle-route and just install a harness-bar if you can't attach harnesses to the rear parcel-shelf 6) A decent seat with bolster support and harness, probably an expired set from a drag racer friend.yep, good idea 7) We kicked around the idea of welding the diff, is this a good or bad idea? This car doesn't have a title so it doesn't see any street time. it can work but you have to adjust your driving style accordingly. Basically you drive a welded diff car using LOTS of throttle and copious amount of left foot braking. it can be fast if you know how to drive it, but also sloppy because that style of driving usually involves hitting a lot of cones I'm basically going to echo what Pete (knurled) already said here; Buy good shocks (KRB GR2's are always a safe bet) Buy good tires (Firestone Winterforces or General Altimax Arctics are great choices if you don't want to spend for rally tires) Make sure the car is in good working order (fluids are fresh, no loose/broken suspension pieces,bushings are in decent shape, motor runs well, not broken/worn motor mounts, brakes function properly, etc.) Go party, wheel time will help you more than anything
Unrelated, but Matt, you need to purchase the escort gt chassis that Jim Pierce is selling.
In reply to captdownshift:
Are you talking about the one in California? That looks like one heck of a bargain. I'm glad its so far away.
Shocks are going on tomorrow. I'm not sure what kind they are, Andy ordered them off the rock, just some stock replacements. It sounds like most of my ideas were fairly pointless. That's okay, I'm pretty used to that.
I never thought about stretching the harnesses back to the backseat. I guess that would save me the weight of a rollbar, but I do like the idea of the extra protection.
NGTD wrote:gearheadmb wrote: In reply to rslifkin: Yeah, we need to do some research on what cars share the 5x100 bolt pattern we have and what would be a good junkyard option for wheels. I think subarus use that pattern, so I was hoping we could find some of those with good tires for what we are doing. Is wider always better for rallycross, or not?- Non-STi Subaru's - Mk4 (99-05) VW Golf and Jetta - PT Cruiser's and some Neon's That is just a start 5X100 list from Roadkill Customs
Awesome link. Thanks for that.
Yup the one in California, Matt already campaigns one, so a chassis swap and but would likely occur.
Knurled wrote: In reply to NGTD: The guys not on the sharp end are on old used tires of the wrong size... Cause or effect? My times improved dramatically when I bought actual new tires. In the right size for the car.
I agree. I was running 205/65R15 on my 97 Outback a few years ago and I definitely would have been better off with a smaller tire.
Goddammit does everybody know about that thing now? I've known about that stupid shell for at least a year and have managed to resist sending Jim a check so far...
OneNote on tires, if you keep the height of the tire within reason you can actually make your gearing more to your favor depending on how the car is geared using tire height. I've been considering pumping our side wall down for the next set of tires on the escort because our second gear is so long (63 mph)
He listed it for sale (and 4 other cars) after getting to SEMA and talking to some Hyundai N Division engineers about an upcoming platform that they're developing.
In reply to captdownshift:
Yeah I saw the original post when he first made it
I think finding a decent bolstered seat would do wonders..
So I'm hearing this as
1) Seat time, and lots of it. I didn't really want to but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
2) Snow tires, small ones.
3) Put the car on a diet
4) A racing seat and harness to stay planted. Really grounded to the ground.
5) No diff welding. The trans isn't very common around here and spares are hard to find.
6) Horsepower mods aren't much of a gain. We may some for fun If time allows but it going to the bottom of the list.
What about car durability? Is there something I should be doing to keep the car in one piece? Or is did the factory make them more than robust enough for this? Keep in mind, this is a shared car. That means 20 runs a day. Oh that reminds me
7) Power steering cooler. The pump was singing by the last run. It seems fine now. I think it was just overheated.
Durability - good shocks goes a long way to that. Mostly if there's any weak points, you'll have to find them yourself.
I know that you can swap later model N-body uprights onto the car for bigger wheel bearings and CV joints. If that ever turns into a problem, which it probably won't.
Have you changed the power steering fluid for a good fresh higher temp fluid? It's surprising how much fluid properties can change over time and it's rare that a car gets new power steering fluid outside a pump failure.
Good wheel studs are nice to have. I've probably seen as many mechanical problems with stripped/broken studs as with all other failures combined. Other than that, just pay attention. Replace worn bushings before they smash other things apart, things like that.
In reply to mazdeuce:
Excellent advice
I'll add when selecting snow tires to go for the ones with the stiffest sidewalls and highest speed rating that you can find. Others will note the reason being that it makes debeading less likely, but I actually like stiffer sidewalls because they increase transitional response and improve steering feedback. I'm in the minority, but I'd take a less aggressive tread in lieu of stiffer sidewalls. If rallycrosses were run in rain, snow or thick mud then I'd opt for more aggressive open block tread and full siping, but due to course rutting most regions cancel events if moderate to heavy rain has occurred within a 3-4 days prior to an event. I'm a fan of Nokian options, even the WRG all seasons, and general altimax tires over most snows for this reason, though continental is starting to make some decently stiff snows in larger sizes. I'm in the extreme minority in this, but have tested the theory across several surfaces (packed moist/wet dirt, crushed gravel and grass field) and temperatures with 3 different chassis with several tire options and in both observed time and in feel, response and resulting driver confidence I've found that sidewall stiffness outweighs tread.
More power shouldn't be a priority, but IMO, more power is not a bad thing for RallyX. It makes it harder to over-tire a car and gives you more flexibility gearing-wise too, especially if that power is available without revving to the moon.
I used truck tires to gear my rallycross car to 47 mph in 1st.
So the new shocks and struts are on. Any suggestions on alignment settings? Just zero toe and zero camber?
Leave alignment as stock. To make the engine last longer, overfill the oil. Prevents starvation at high speed, bouncy sweepers.
Overfilling the oil is more likely to aerate it and make a low oil pressure situation.
Leave everything stock unless there's a good reason for it. If you're going to jump to Mod, put in a power steering cooler. My Volvo will boil the fluid in as little as half a run, and I'm running the fancy synthetic Pentosin stuff.
One problem I had was understeer. I really would like to get the car to rotate better and be a little tail happy. After resetting the alignment to zero camber and toe (or as close as I could with an at home alignment) I haven't had the opportunity to get any more race time, but on the road it does feel a bit different. I would describe it as darty. As in, say you wanted to change lanes, it feels like it is turning as opposed to drifting to the side but still pointed straight down the road, if that makes sense. I guess its hard to describe. I have read conflicting arguments about front sway bars in rallycross. Some say remove it, some say keep it. I am considering removing mine to try to get more front bite. If it helps but doesn't get as much as I would like the next step was going to be stiffening up the twist beam as somebody else was talking about in the prius thread. What are you guys thoughts on running no front sway bar?
You'll need to log in to post.
