"Real" street racing, '70s style.

I initially posted this in the Vintage Racing forum. It wasn't until later that I realized how few posts are actually made on the "classic" side of things. Therefore, I wanted to re-post in a sub that would get more eyeballs.

Mazda787b said: Probably the coolest video you'll see for a very long time. WARNING: contains footage of a deceased driver's car (no footage of driver, thankfully). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx1v_dUoPYA In 1974 and 1975, a street race was held in downtown Pontiac, MI on portions of Woodward Ave and "Wide Track Dr" (aka the Woodward northern loop/terminus). There's some cool Vettes, Can-Am cars, a Yenko Stinger, and even a Le Mans start! 74 was won by local hotshoe Warren Tope in his Pantera. Unfortunately, he perished the next year in a McLaren CanAm car. My father recalls David E. Davis making a claim about a driver who was decapitated while he was there to witness but never elaborated. Possibly the same event? Tope was a pretty successful driver. I just knew of the name from his Trans-Am Boss. I was unaware of his other racing successes. Very interesting history, I wish there was more information out there. Here's all I could find after some googling: http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/autoracing.aspx?id=1775&Type=9 http://www.leagle.com/decision/197867281MichApp591_1601 http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/results/Warren-Tope-USA.html http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19750706&id=gqROAAAAIBAJ&sjid=A_sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1594,1425284 http://www.ponysite.de/transam_tope.htm

I came across this researching Trans-Am history and that of some local dealers. I remembered that Stark Hickey ford sponsored a Red Boss 302 (thanks Scalextric). It kind of cascaded from there.

If anyone has more knowledge of this event, or better yet similar ones, feel free to post them up. I couldn't even imagine what a nightmare it would be pulling something like this off today, let alone having a major sanctioning body back it.

They still do something like this today for Bahamas Speed Week.

Edit: Wow the video really shows you how much faster cars are now. You could have got 1st in that race with a rental Yaris.

Ah, the days before the childproofing of the country.

I was there as a spectator. My dad was in the race track insurance business at the time, and insured the event. I was seven years old at the time. I do not remember a decapitation, but I do remember that there was a bad wreck.

I only made it to 4:00. Was there racing in that video? All i saw was old crap making a bunch of noise while going slowly. I literally do racier driving than that on a daily basis.

GameboyRMH wrote: They still do something like this today for Bahamas Speed Week. Edit: Wow the video really shows you how much faster cars are now. You could have got 1st in that race with a rental Yaris.

I was in the Bahamas for a couple days during vacation last week and saw a starting grid and finish line in Nassau near the Fish Fry. Is this where they have the Bahamas Speed Week?

Very cool, thanks.

Paul B

92dxman wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: They still do something like this today for Bahamas Speed Week. Edit: Wow the video really shows you how much faster cars are now. You could have got 1st in that race with a rental Yaris.

I was in the Bahamas for a couple days during vacation last week and saw a starting grid and finish line in Nassau near the Fish Fry. Is this where they have the Bahamas Speed Week?

They have it all over the island, but I don't know exactly where. You can be sure that had something to do with it.

pilotbraden wrote: I was there as a spectator. My dad was in the race track insurance business at the time, and insured the event. I was seven years old at the time. I do not remember a decapitation, but I do remember that there was a bad wreck.

That was speculation on my part. Anything else you might remember from the race? I cannot find any results or much info outside what I posted. I'm curious as to who (and what) else entered.

As far as them being slow, I think the sound makes up for it.

It's too bad there isn't more footage out there.

This is completely unbelievable.

Mazda787b wrote: I initially posted this in the Vintage Racing forum. It wasn't until later that I realized how few posts are actually made on the "classic" side of things. Therefore, I wanted to re-post in a sub that would get more eyeballs.

Mazda787b said: Probably the coolest video you'll see for a very long time. WARNING: contains footage of a deceased driver's car (no footage of driver, thankfully). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx1v_dUoPYA In 1974 and 1975, a street race was held in downtown Pontiac, MI on portions of Woodward Ave and "Wide Track Dr" (aka the Woodward northern loop/terminus). There's some cool Vettes, Can-Am cars, a Yenko Stinger, and even a Le Mans start! 74 was won by local hotshoe Warren Tope in his Pantera. Unfortunately, he perished the next year in a McLaren CanAm car. My father recalls David E. Davis making a claim about a driver who was decapitated while he was there to witness but never elaborated. Possibly the same event? Tope was a pretty successful driver. I just knew of the name from his Trans-Am Boss. I was unaware of his other racing successes. Very interesting history, I wish there was more information out there. Here's all I could find after some googling: http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/autoracing.aspx?id=1775&Type=9 http://www.leagle.com/decision/197867281MichApp591_1601 http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/results/Warren-Tope-USA.html http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19750706&id=gqROAAAAIBAJ&sjid=A_sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1594,1425284 http://www.ponysite.de/transam_tope.htm

I came across this researching Trans-Am history and that of some local dealers. I remembered that Stark Hickey ford sponsored a Red Boss 302 (thanks Scalextric). It kind of cascaded from there. If anyone has more knowledge of this event, or better yet similar ones, feel free to post them up. I couldn't even imagine what a nightmare it would be pulling something like this off today, let alone having a major sanctioning body back it.

watched about 2 minutes before i got bored...

why is it supposed to be a big deal if you see a car that was driven by a guy that died in a race a year later? am i supposed to avert my gaze if i see footage of Dale Earnhardt Sr's car in a race from 2000, too?

I don't see what you're getting at?

I'm not so much concerned with the fella who died, as I am a piece of nearly forgotten local history. The only reason I stumbled across this was while doing some deeper research into privateer Trans-Am cars/drivers. It just so happens that 90% of the "hits" I've had only seem to exist in relation to the shunt. As a matter of fact, I can't really find ANY information on the '73 race other than the fact that it happened.

You can't tell me that you haven't fantasized about the main drag in their town closed down so whateverthehelltheyarenowcalling ALMS could run about. Much more interesting than anything that's ever happened on Belle Isle.

Vigo wrote: I only made it to 4:00. Was there racing in that video? All i saw was old crap making a bunch of noise while going slowly. I literally do racier driving than that on a daily basis.

I think the slowness had more to do with the film media used (Super 8?), frames per second it was shot in, and how it was transferred to digital. If you watched any of the people walking around starting about 3:50 you'll notice they move like they are in a Charlie Chaplin film.

GameboyRMH wrote: Edit: Wow the video really shows you how much faster cars are now.

Yep. And how weak brakes used to be.

Vigo wrote: I only made it to 4:00. Was there racing in that video? All i saw was old crap making a bunch of noise while going slowly. I literally do racier driving than that on a daily basis.

You missed the girls in the bikinis there attention span boy.

Rob_Mopar wrote:

Vigo wrote: I only made it to 4:00. Was there racing in that video? All i saw was old crap making a bunch of noise while going slowly. I literally do racier driving than that on a daily basis.

I think the slowness had more to do with the film media used (Super 8?), frames per second it was shot in, and how it was transferred to digital. If you watched any of the people walking around starting about 3:50 you'll notice they move like they are in a Charlie Chaplin film.

Per the guy who posted the video, it was in Super 8. I know nothing of the format. That would make perfect sense, however. I can deal with the poor video, I just wish the whole thing had sound.

GameboyRMH wrote: They still do something like this today for Bahamas Speed Week. Edit: Wow the video really shows you how much faster cars are now. You could have got 1st in that race with a rental Yaris.

Also in Sri Lanka.....except anyone can enter, in any car....on public streets through the capitol Colombo.

I dunno, call me crazy but i only saw that car get part of the way through 4th gear ONE TIME. Unless the thing was geared tall i dont see it being much past 100 mph at the MOST, and the turns were downright slow.

In reply to Vigo:

Of course they are slower, it was almost 40 years ago! It's still a cool historical video...I'm sure 40 years from now the GTR, ZR-1, 911T, etc. will all be WAY slower than the current crop, and our kids will be laughing at what we used to think was fast. Enjoy it for what it is I have always dreamed of a race through my town...I think of it every time I'm on my 5 mile test drive loop at work.

That track looks really familiar..

I used to play SPORTSCAR G.T. on my PC.. That game was awesome BTW... Way ahead of it's time... Anyways.. There were loads of tracks, cars and add-ons that players created for that game which could be easily added on. Seriously I think it was the greatest racing game ever based on that alone...

That track looks really familiar.. Possibly the inspiration for the "E Street Boogie" track.

S.C.G.T. was the first game I ever played where I could race against a field of 24 Formula Fords on the Nurburgring, Bathurst, or Blackhawk Farms.. All three of those tracks were user created additions to the game, and more realistic than the tracks that came with it.. The Formula Fords, also user created!!! There were hundreds of other tracks and cars user created for the game.. Want to drive a blimp around Monaco??? You can.. Want to watch the race from trackside turn 3 at Mosport from a drunk spectators perspective?? You can!!

It was so good.. I'm going to see if my original disk works with my computer, If it doesn't I'm going to find out how to make it work.. Thanks for reminding me how good a game it is!!!

I think I posted this up awhile back, but happy to see it make the rounds again. I drive those streets everyday back and forth to work, its strange how much has changed from then to now, and how much is the same!

As far as how 'slow" the cars are, look closer at the turns. Many are tighter than 90 degrees, very narrow and those roads were/are rough. And how good were tires back then?

Rob_Mopar wrote: I think the slowness had more to do with the film media used (Super 8?), frames per second it was shot in, and how it was transferred to digital. If you watched any of the people walking around starting about 3:50 you'll notice they move like they are in a Charlie Chaplin film.

Ummm, if you slow the speedwalking people down to normal pace, the cars are going to look even slower than they already do.

Thank you for the video, man some of you young kids have the attention span of a flea. That was awesome. So what if the cars are slower, it doesn't mean the drivers were trying less than today, I thought it was awesome.

I am really really stunned at how views have changed on safety. Most of what you saw there wouldn't be acceptable for a slow speed autocross, let alone a race with cars exiting corners are 100+ mph.

To people complaining about the speeds, tires and brakes have improved immeasurably over the last 20, let alone 40 years. Heck, a decent summer street tire has more grip than a set of R comps from 15 years ago, and brakes have come a long long way. Cross drilled rotors were actually needed for out gassing back then rather than a fashion statement today. Just go and look at the size of brakes on a corvette, Porsche or Ferrari from the early 70's, smaller than a modern Fiesta.

To the person complaining about only reaching 4th gear once, remember back then most cars only had a 4 or sometimes 5 speed gearbox. If you look at something like a 1976 Porsche 930, which remember was later than this, the factory car could do nearly 130mph in 3rd gear. Those same basic cars in 936 trim were pushing 200 mph in race conditions ON A 4 SPEED BOX!!! Gearing was different back then.

Again, thanks to the OP, what a great watch, I'll read the links at lunch time.

Thanks to the OP for posting this.

Duke wrote:

Rob_Mopar wrote: I think the slowness had more to do with the film media used (Super 8?), frames per second it was shot in, and how it was transferred to digital. If you watched any of the people walking around starting about 3:50 you'll notice they move like they are in a Charlie Chaplin film.

Ummm, if you slow the speedwalking people down to normal pace, the cars are going to look even slower than they already do.

It's not a single speed. It's a combination of the original choppy FPS filming, the playback at whatever rate the projector/transfer machine was running it at, and the recording of that playback.

It's been 20 years since I studied video production so I'm real rusty on all of it, but I think that's the basics of it. If FGC is around he probably could shed some light on it.