Remind me. Why are flood cars bad?

Been lookin for a CV for a frame and such. 

Would like to have been able to drive it for the first Challenge, but...

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/pts/d/saint-petersburg-2010-crown-victoria/7789678721.html

Saltwater berkeleys all the motors and actuators and ECUs. Mechanical bits are probably OK.

I'm wondering too because Copart is loaded with nice looking flood damaged cars currently. If looking for a parts car what parts likely are ok? Like plastic bumpers, wheels, window glass... headlights?

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Also, sewage.

I'd honestly be looking at the frame, suspension, and axle.

petemc53555 said:

I'm wondering too because Copart is loaded with nice looking flood damaged cars currently. If looking for a parts car what parts likely are ok? Like plastic bumpers, wheels, window glass... headlights?

Gonna want to be able to thoroughly disinfect anything.  Bumpers, wheels, glass, these are good things.  Anything with a soft surface, is gonna be difficult

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Saltwater berkeleys all the motors and actuators and ECUs. Mechanical bits are probably OK.

Flood water isn't clean water.  The grit gets into everything from seat tracks to window regulator cables and shifter cables and everything else. Mechanical bits may not be okay.  Might be okay at first but everything wears much much faster.

Ever see rust pitted diff gears from a truck that would go too deep at the boat ramp?  That will be in the diff and transmission, too.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Saltwater berkeleys all the motors and actuators and ECUs. Mechanical bits are probably OK.

Flood water isn't clean water.  The grit gets into everything from seat tracks to window regulator cables and shifter cables and everything else. Mechanical bits may not be okay.  Might be okay at first but everything wears much much faster.

 

Ever see rust pitted diff gears from a truck that would go too deep at the boat ramp?  That will be in the diff and transmission, too.

i have theory, you have practice.  i hadn't even thought about the crud.  Or as Mr Asa mentioned, the sewage.  Sounds terrible.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

I had ONE customer with a flood car.  It wasn't branded as such but she always had weird, this-never-wears-out issues, and one day we had to pull the dash apart for something and there was a clear water-line where everything was silty below that line.

A lot of it WAS things like switches wearing out (grit...) but the mechanical things too.

I live in Cleveland, everything lives in a brine bath for five or six months of the year, so rusted seat tracks and stuff just happens as a matter of course   I had to replace the suspension module in my Volvo because the case rusted out and the circuit board turned to green powder.  It lives right next to the accelerator pedal, where a salty shoe or boot rests and the water in the cabin never really evaporates.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Sounds E36 M3ty.

I've heard from people in the insurance and car rental businesses on the number of vehicles lost in the Tampa Bay area. A friend that works for Enterprise said 40,000 north of the Skyway. Insurance friend said 60,000 from Bradenton to Crystal River.

If you are just looking for hard parts with fluids and seals that can be changed, a flood car can be a great donor. Pressure wash the carcass and pull the organs you want.

If the part moves electrons it will go bad quickly.

Given the weather in FL I would be very cautious about flood cars but also need to share my experience.  Not all flood cars are flood cars.  My 05 Baja turbo is a flood titled car with no evidence of water in the car.  It had the normal old suby smell when I bought it but a day with an ozone machine took care of that.  The only problem I had with the car was a very poorly done engine swap.  My theory is the PO(teen daughter of a very shady mechanic) drove it thru a puddle and the motor locked up.  Rather than pay for the repairs parent submitted an insurance claim and traded the flood branded title for money.  Then in went a beat motor and incompetant mechanic for install.  They then sold it and probably broke even on the whole thing.  I have had the seats out and carpet peeled up, there is no evidence of water.  Door panels were pulled and same thing.  Underneath it has the typical rust, about the same as out 08 legacy.  

So flood cars may not always be flood cars.

Besides waterlogged computers there are zillions of electrical connections that will corrode.  That doesn't include degraded wiring, where flood water has gotten up inside the insulation.

As a retired EE:

1. If it's waterproof, you're fine. Hose it off, clean it, done.

2. ECU: "it depends." If the connectors are waterproof, and the case is waterproof, it's probably okay. If you can take the cover off to check for internal water, all the better.

3. Wire harnesses: "it depends". If all the connectors are waterproof, you're fine. BUT, if there's a cut anywhere in the harness, or if unprotected ends of any wires are visible, or if poor quality connectors are used, stay away.

4. Switches: Probably ruined or will soon fail due to grit or salt getting inside.

5. Flooded EVs are potentially an even greater concern depending upon the battery pack and motor designs as for what grit and salt might do.

The problem is silt and salt - especially salt. I saw a really impressive demonstration about water and capillary action. A piece of insulated wire several feet long was hooked over the rim of a drinking glass with one end submerged. Some time later, water was leaking out the other end. The point is, if the car was exposed to salt water, if it gets inside the wires, it's pulled by capillary action many feet down the interior of the wire. Yes, eventually the water evaporates, but the salt remains, which is nearly as bad as acid on wiring.

Not all flood cars are Florida flood cars.  Right now North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia all have fresh water flood cars.  And from what I've seen on some YT videos it doesn't seem like the adjusters are even looking that close before sending cars to the yard as they have thousands to deal with.  There was one C8 had mud piled on the outside but the interior was obviously dry.

Salt and modern cars with ultra thin wiring and sheathing does not compute to me. 

Fresh water flood car that did not get above the intake I would be omfortable using as a parts car for sure. 

This gives me hope to find a couple late model bumper covers soon

I had been looking at Copart for Mustangs. You can get a cheap flooded Coyote Mustang, gut it completely, and you've got a good race car chassis. Almost all of the wiring is dead weight anyway. That smelly carpet and those gross seats? Throw them in the trash! You could power wash the interior of the body with bleach, I guess.

confuZion3 said:

I had been looking at Copart for Mustangs. You can get a cheap flooded Coyote Mustang, gut it completely, and you've got a good race car chassis. Almost all of the wiring is dead weight anyway. That smelly carpet and those gross seats? Throw them in the trash! You could power wash the interior of the body with bleach, I guess.

Dont use bleach with steel.  You dont want chlorine getting in there.

Oh, I suppose I should caution people that I'm not speaking from experience, here. That's probably sage advice right there (don't rust out your newly-acquired car!). This was me daydreaming about getting a cheap Coyote Mustang and doing fun things with it.

Floods in fresh water areas are still likely to include sewage and all sorts of other nasty things.

Mr_Asa said:

confuZion3 said:

I had been looking at Copart for Mustangs. You can get a cheap flooded Coyote Mustang, gut it completely, and you've got a good race car chassis. Almost all of the wiring is dead weight anyway. That smelly carpet and those gross seats? Throw them in the trash! You could power wash the interior of the body with bleach, I guess.

Dont use bleach with steel.  You dont want chlorine getting in there.

Steam cleaning should do the trick

My Dad had an Audi A6, the sunroof leaks (a class problem); bad rain storm and the foot wells filled with water.   Vacuumed water out, open doors overnight with fans and a heater going, everything seemed fine.  A few days later it started blasting the alarm system and the flashers would light off at 2:00 am even though the car wasn't locked.  He ended up trading in for something else because he had no confidence it would even start when leaving an event away from home.

It was a pretty car, camel interior, green metallic exterior.   A week later a woman called and asked Dad about the car, she was going to buy it for her 18 year old daughter, "Don't buy it" was the answer.  She did anyway.  =~ (

YMMV, but I would hesitate to take a free one.

914Driver said:

YMMV, but I would hesitate to take a free one.

I would also hesitate to take a free Audi. 

Really though, with the exception of a race car chassis, I also wouldn't want to deal with chasing water damage forever in a car I needed to trust. In the race car, you can replace the ECU with a stand-alone if you had to, and then toss everything else in the trash. If my ticket to "Coyote" and "Mustang" in race car format is a 500 mile tow from a flood zone auction, I'll go buy a steam cleaner (good idea triumph7), park the thing in the garage with the door closed, and run a dehumidifier for a week. All the silt and stuff in the carpet, seats, door cards... that will all end up in a landfill with those parts. I can power wash (without bleach) the interior. Then steam clean the heck out of it.

When you see pictures like this, it definitely gets the delusional ideas flowing... "I'm sure I could make that run again...":

Anecdotal story:

Way back in 78 or 79, a local Chevy dealer's lot flooded.  Their solution was to spit polish them and sell them as obvious flood cars.  My aunt and uncle bought a K5.  The dealer had stripped out the interior carpet, replaced the seats, and gave it a quick paint job/body work to cover some dents it picked up from debris. Even though it was a carbureted pickup with the absolute minimum of electronics, it was always a problem.  The taillights never really worked, it started rusting in the first couple years, and things like wheel bearings and axle bearings failed very quickly.  Water gets everywhere, and even if you replace everything, it's still somewhere.