Rental 4Runner: I Was Right About SUVs

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

All things are not a simple, as a simple explanation. 
I was there through all of the fashionable vanity decisions that found the term "SUV" although it in itself has changed much since it's early days... mostly due to the same type of peoples vanity!

I wasn't there for the Edsel, but there were a ton of other factors. 
As far a the masses that prefer to be led, "they'll buy it" is accurate , but lots of folks (definitely not the majority) would buy something "else" if available. But have to drive something, so tend to settle. 
So yea, not that simple, but not completely untrue. 

Appleseed said:

In reply to Jesse Ransom :

Sounds like you've never driven a truck.

I've driven plenty of trucks, of course.

They make great trucks.

They score less well on many of the ways we rate cars, which is fine if you want your car to be a truck, but doesn't make much sense if you want a four wheeled appliance and don't need or want the truck aspects.

That actually makes me think of another way to frame the market/default thing: the whole reason this post exists is because we didn't want to wedge three tall adults and a bunch of baggage in a Mini. So we rented "something bigger." And by default we were given this truck which I spent four hours being tossed around in on paved roads with no trailer. The rental place, which certainly did not expect me to do "truck things" thought this was a reasonable selection given what's being built right now.

And that's the crux: a 4Runner may be a fine truck/SUV, but it is a compromised mover of people and things.

Lots of people have reason to drive an SUV, and so they should, even if they just want to. But foisting SUVs on people who just want legroom and cargo space seems like a suboptimal answer to me. And the fact that the equipment, weight, worse mileage, and lousy ride quality are what you get if you ask for a bigger box at the rental counter tells me we're being upsold for no reason. The fact that truck-based SUVs are winding up in rental fleets, the commodity transportation pools that they are, says as much.

Of course if they'd actually given us the CX-5, it probably wouldn't have wound me up.

In reply to Jesse Ransom :

Or, ask for a minivan or cuv. You can reject a car at the rental places unless they have no inventory at the time. Last week I asked for a compact and they gave me a rav4. Which was fine because it gets the same mpg and has better cargo space than a compact car. 

I think you were just upset that the 4runner didn't ride like a car and used that as an opportunity to rant about your hate for SUVs and justify it. 

Btw there are still new wagons you can buy, better buy one now and put your money where you're mouth is. If not, then they'll eventually stop selling them all together. 

My wife cross shopped some wagons (Volvo and Mercedes) with some "suv's" and came to the conclusion the explorer and Mercedes gle were better choices for her because they did everything a wagon does and more at the same price and mpg's. And she really liked the Benz wagon a lot lol. 

I just had a Honda CRV as a rental for an extended weekend.  Last weekend in fact.  It was....ok.  Comfortable enough, held our stuff and 3 of us in comfort.  That's about it. T he CVT was awful, power/performance barely adequate.  Got decent mpg's but nothing stellar.  As a rental, it was fine, nothing I'd buy tho.  Perhaps that would've been a better choice for you vs the 4Runner?

The 4Runner's and the Land Cruisers are trucks.  They're not a car based CUV or a uni bodied SUV.  My wifes Cayenne diesel drives far more like a car than my Land Cruiser, the differences are immediately obvious.  Hers is a much better city/freeway car, mine is better off road, plowing through whatever is in the way and carrying a ton of whatever I need to carry.  Yesterday it was 8 wheels and 6 tires for my 911.  At once, in one trip.

docwyte :

The 4Runner's and the Land Cruisers are trucks.  They're not a car based CUV or a uni bodied SUV. 

^This.. 4Runners have always been trucks.  Soccer Moms may have co-opted them in the 90s, but every woman I ever knew that owned one complained bitterly about the ride and the lack of MPGs and bailed on them as soon as they could.  They are the reason Toyota built the Highlander, because 4Runners are not cars.

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

Yep. I remember when to aftermarket made the first ones out of trucks, before Toyota decided to get in on the act. Datsun, although the first aftermarket was done on one, didn't have that forsite. 
Truck people never considered the mini trucks "real" trucks, but they did become very capable off road  fun. 

yupididit said:

4runner is a pretty terrible SUV's when it comes to road manners. In my opinion, so are Wranglers. Wagons suck too though. I hate getting in and out of them and I hate loading and unloading them. 

What we chose over wagons are Tahoes, Explorers, Telluride and Cayennes lol. And minivans. And pickup trucks lol

It's my opinion too that Wranglers blow for road-trips.  I have one.  4 doors.  Rubicon.  Stick.  Worst is the tires it came with.  BFG M/T's.  Gees those things are LOUD.  I've rented a couple of hoyty toyte QX80'S (Nissan Patrol) and other than the quieter tires, better interior with a ton of sound deadening, and big DOHC V8, I didn't find them any better than the Wrangler.  They certainly didn't seem to handle any better and that's saying something since the Wrangler has straight axles.

yupididit said:

In reply to Jesse Ransom :

I think you were just upset that the 4runner didn't ride like a car and used that as an opportunity to rant about your hate for SUVs and justify it. 

First things first: Guilty. I was pissed off and riled up and vented with a mediocre attempt at humor.

While I do think manufacturers have pushed hard to shape the market in ways that benefit them over the customer, if I phrased it so badly that I gave the impression that I thought these vehicles shouldn't exist or that anyone who chooses one is wrong and a poopyhead, then I have berkeleyed the hell up, and I am genuinely sorry for that.

frenchyd said:

Sure if you want to scat around  on public roads getting your thrills.  Endangering others. Smaller more nimble vehicles are fun.   

Okay, with a grin on my face, I gotta call you on this one: you're going to tell me, here on the GRM forum, that fun cars are a menace to society?

Jesse Ransom said:

Okay, with a grin on my face, I gotta call you on this one: you're going to tell me, here on the GRM forum, that fun cars are a menace to society?

There were several paragraphs to his reply, but I could not understand much of it. The little I did understand was incorrect, so maybe I didn't understand any of it?

In reply to 03Panther :

I took the first chunk to be the observation that SUVs really do serve folks who tow or drive in snow well, and the latter bit (which I quoted) to be a bit of a dismissal of daily driving anything more nimble.

Given how well I haven't done with expressing myself so far, I'm hoping I haven't missed with this razz as well.

In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :

Dollar, Avis, Hertz, Enterprise