RIP Targa Newfoundland?

Targa Newfoundland 2019 was cancelled yesterday. Well, postponed until the 2020 event but it's the same thing. Press release. And there's a good chance it won't come back.

That's pretty short notice, given that the race is in about a month. The official reason was that a number of entries dropped out in quick succession, but the press release also mentions that the province of Newfoundland has also pulled their financial support of the event. It's also notable that Robert Giannou had previously announced that 2019 would be his last event, and I've always felt that it was his connections in a small province that made this work at all. Without Robert Giannou, there never would have been a Targa Newfoundland in the first place.

The numbers have been dropping for years. Even in 2008, people were forecasting the end of the event due to the low numbers although the results show that it was about as big then as it ever got. That year, there are 49 people in the results list for the Targa (high speed) class and that doesn't count at least one team that withdrew their entry after scattering a car all over the woods - MINI didn't want a DNF. There was also the Grand Touring (TSD) class. My memory says there were 68-odd cars in total. The 2018 results list shows 9 cars in Targa and 9 in Grand Touring.

An event like this has a lot of logistical overhead. It's just as difficult to close a stage for one car as it is for four dozen. As a five day event, the overhead was massive. They used to quote that there were 2200 volunteers involved. Honestly, I'm surprised they were able to keep it going with 18 cars. The event compressed in 2012 (the year after my last visit) and started using shorter stages that were closer together instead of ranging all over the province. This apparently changed the nature of the event. A number of communities have been pulling their support for various reasons, usually safety related but also due to the inhabitants being tired of the hassle.

Meanwhile, Targa Tasmania is massive. What's so different? Who can come up with how to save Targa Newfoundland? 

If you want to relive some previous Targa Newfoundland discussion, my 2009 thread is cool because of the sheer number of competitors that take part (including a prediction that it's a dying event by a sore loser). Most of the pictures are gone, alas, but it's pretty interesting to read now. The handicapping system that was in place then was abolished a couple of years later. There are also a bunch of videos on my YouTube channel, or you can watch the Racing The Rock documentary of our 2011 race.

Pour one out for one of the greats, folks.

It is unfortunate, but any Motorsports event held on public roads have massive overhead and require a huge staff compared to closed course events.

Damn, I might've done that some day if I had a rally car and $10k burning a hole in my pocket...

On that note, the relatively huge entry fee is probably a factor.

GameboyRMH said:

Damn, I might've done that some day if I had a rally car and $10k burning a hole in my pocket...

On that note, the relatively huge entry fee is probably a factor.

It's been high since the start - but it's a five day event, so it's not out of line. Targa Tasmania isn't much different IIRC. The entry fee is not that big compared to the cost of hotels, travel, fuel and the like. I think I burned $4000 worth of diesel in 2011 towing out to Newfoundland and supporting a two car team. That would be a lot lower these days with the smaller footprint.

That's the thing, Targa Tasmania is notoriously expensive, and Targa Newfoundland is right in line with it. For a privateer entrant who works for a living, that entry fee can be 50~75% of their event costs, which is a big deal.

As a privateer entrant who works for a living, that's about right. My 2008 costs were about $5k and the entry fee for 2009 was about $5k. And it's a big deal. But somehow, Targa Tasmania survives.

Entry fees for 2020 are $7,995.00 Cdn, which is right about $6k US. Using the CPI calculator, that's almost exactly $5k in 2009 dollars. So the event is the same cost now as it was when it was considerably larger.

I think Targa Tasmania survives *because* it's so expensive...it's a bit of a veblen good. Just the transport costs to get there are insane to anyone who doesn't live in Tasmania...it's built an exclusive competitor base of people who are good for whatever it costs.

So Targa Newfoundland is failing because it's too expensive, but Targa Tasmania is successful because it's expensive? Do not follow.

I've not been to Targa Tasmania, but I can tell you that the TN competitors are very much grassroots racers. Figure it's an entire season of race costs in a week and that's about right. 

Keith Tanner said:

So Targa Newfoundland is failing because it's too expensive, but Targa Tasmania is successful because it's expensive? Do not follow.

I've not been to Targa Tasmania, but I can tell you that the TN competitors are very much grassroots racers. Figure it's an entire season of race costs in a week and that's about right.

TN is failing because it's too expensive for mere mortals, TT is successful because it's escaped the money gravity well to a place where price is meaningless. Same reason low-end or midrange sports cars are hard to sell and high-end supercars sell out before they're produced.

I thought the entry costs were closer to $10k, so I was off a bit. But compare that to the cost of rallying in (the rest of) North America, Mexico or the Caribbean. It could be possible for a thrifty Brit to do Rally Barbados (entry fee includes most of the shipping from and back to England!) for less than a Newfie could do Targa Newfoundland.

I can tell you that it's the mere mortals that race in Newfoundland. Every once in a while a big money team comes in (hello Stillen), but most of the competitors are self-financed and racing cars they built themselves. The #1 sponsor of my entries - and pretty much the only one in 2008 - was me. I am not independently weathy, I simply made it a priority. Do you have inside information on who exactly is racing in Australia or what the budgets of the average competitor are?

I think the contraction in 2012 was a big problem. All of the signature stages disappeared - Gander, Leading Tickles, Garnish. Competitors who kept coming back say that the event changed quite a bit there. So the event got smaller, the entries dropped and it started down the death spiral. it also became harder to get press coverage because there was a strong sense of BTDT in the press - I know this from trying to get a ridealone journalist for 2011. Targa Newfoundland came out of the gate hard and got lots of coverage, but then their market was saturated. I think they could actually do better today if they leveraged the blogs, who are better suited to building enthusiasm for a long event as it progresses than print ever was.

This is a big blow to Motorsports in eastern Canada.

With only a single road race course east of Montreal, and the only other race tracks being a smattering of drag strips which are always on the brink of closing.

This was a world class even that brought people from across the continent to our part of the world.

Whats worse is I didn’t get a chance to make it over to the island to see it.

I'm sad I never made it to this one. I loved following your adventures Keith and seeing them on You Tube. This is a dying breed for so many reasons. Least of which is just general liability. 

I am sad- but glad for the opportunity I had to see it, and you in action via DVD. 

I haven't followed the 'state' of Irish rallying too closely since I left but the 'Circuit' I don't think is anything near what it used to be in the 70s/80s.

Having said that it still exists judging by the updates on Youtube.  Flyin' Finn Motorsports and some other guy post regularly.

It does seem that there's an awful lot of mark two Escorts making up the field decades after they first appeared. 

Which is admittedly better than the stupid understeering WRC cars.  

I'm just glad i got to see a glacier in person before it was too late, and even those will far outlive events like this. Closed public roads racing is just untenable for anything short of a big money sanctioning body and even then, only certain types of roads. I watch a lot of rally racing clips from Europe and I'm sort of shocked they continue to exist since it seems like nearly every time you close a public road for a race, a car ends up crashing through someone's building after leaving the road. Are these houses under mandatory evacuation orders? Can a property owner even have a choice as to whether or not their property is subjected to this event? Are they being lured into the waivers with expectations of above-market-value insurance payouts? Then you have the problem of not really being able to make money on the event anyway.  It's a miracle they exist anywhere, in my opinion. 

I mean, is it sad to see an event like this fade to black? Sure. But it's inevitable. Obvious exception made for the .1%ers mentioned above who exist in a different reality, but that's a pretty universal exception to almost any discussion about something being difficult, unlikely, illegal, etc. 

Speaking of things rich people get away with, maybe we can all chip in and buy Pedophile Island from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein and run a race on it! 

Agreed, it's amazing something like this ever existed. I think it's because Newfoundland is a small province and Robert Giannou knows everyone. It IS his private island, and so he made it happen. But that force of will only lasts for so long, and every time a car hits a house or an Enzo goes in the drink or someone's grandson can't get to grandma's house because the marshals won't let them cross the course (not a random example), the event makes a few more enemies. It was a spectator injury that caused the loss of Fortune after 2011, and I think that was the last straw for Gander and all the northern communities, which led to the contraction.

I always wanted to do it. But I had some friends who’ve run the event and, based on what they told me, I figured I’d need to take off at least 9 days from work and budget $10-12k.

Plus the very real possibility of balling up the car, driving it into someone’s dining room, or watching it drift into the Atlantic.

I could never justify the cost needed to make it work. 

I was very serious about tackling TNF after seeing the first couple of years on TV. Being the INTJ I am, I sat down and mapped out what it would take for me to get myself and a minimal support staff to/from the event and what it would cost. It was just too daunting. The time off from work alone was a no-go for me. It would have required nearly 3 straight weeks away.

It was a wonderful event. I didn't know it was sinking as it disappeared from most media the last few years. Perhaps they could do it as a non-annual event. Every two years or something. I'd still keep it on my bucket list but it would have to wait until retirement for me.

One of the big draws for me was the response from the citizenry that I saw in the early years. Everyone seemed like they were really on board with it. That part of the experience was a huge draw for me. If the populace had soured on it then I'd be far less interested.

As much as I like forest rallying I'll never compete in it. The Targa format was far more appealing.

Looked like fun but it's too far away, too much time away from work and too expensive when all the transport costs, hard event costs and opportunity costs are added up. 

This isn't an issue for the guys coming out in exotica, transported in professional semi's crewed by guys in matching outfits.

For people like me, it's insurmountable.  Hell, I'm lucky I was able to do One Lap one time and the only reason that happened was I was in between businesses and my friend/co-driver found a sponsor that basically paid for our entry fee.

LanEvo said:

I always wanted to do it. But I had some friends who’ve run the event and, based on what they told me, I figured I’d need to take off at least 9 days from work and budget $10-12k.

Plus the very real possibility of balling up the car, driving it into someone’s dining room, or watching it drift into the Atlantic.

I could never justify the cost needed to make it work. 

I was away for nearly a month to do it, and your budget is about right for 2008.  My reasoning for the cost and time was that it was one of the few international-level events I could run in. Le Mans, Mille Miglia - no chance. But Targa? Yes. 

Balling up the car is optional. You just have to leave a margin. We had very few sketchy moments because I kept well within the limits. Goal #1 was “stay out of the ocean”. 

I don’t think I saw a single semi except maybe the Turks and Caicos group with an open car hauler. Our team had matching hoodies, that was the extreme for team wear. You guys are completely overestimating the participants finances. Other than a very few high dollar guys who were playing (ie, that Enzo) and not competing, it was grassroots. 

Vigo said:

I'm just glad i got to see a glacier in person before it was too late,

Well seeing as you went there unnecessarily.

From what I'm gathering the loss of this event is due to declining quality of the event.  Axing of stages for whatever reasons ( probably local.)

And the cost factor not being worth it anymore.

A shame but not much beyond that.  Certainly nothing transcendental.

Just one more example of how our fathers had more fun than us then class warfare/lawfare/Nimbyism/apathy/whatever/ZOMGmyhousehasaroadinfrontofitstopthemadness took over. 

nutherjrfan said:

Vigo said:

I'm just glad i got to see a glacier in person before it was too late,

Well seeing as you went there unnecessarily.

This site uses a combination of cherry-picking and conflation of surface area with volume in an attempt to paint a picture that flies in the face of our best knowledge, which you can get a better idea of here:

https://nsidc.org/glims/glaciermelt

Lets look at it from a geographical analysis standpoint: 

Melbourne to Tasmania is pretty common and reasonably easy ferry trip on the Spirit of Tasmania. Trailered vehicles might run as a high as $500 for the crossing. Takes between 9-11 hours and is like a Mini-Cruise. Rub elbows with fellow racers, party, nap. Get off the boat, drive an hour to George Town from Devonport, start racing.

Population of Melbourne Metro area is 4.5 million. 

I'd bet if your looked at the geographic distribution of entrants for the Targa Tasmania, you'd find that the vast majority are from Melbourne or surrounding areas. 

St. John's however has a population of 130,000, nearest major cities are Halifax or Quebec City, neither of which are highly populated, nearest big cities are Boston and Montreal which are both 25ish hour drives away and also require a 6 hour ferry. 

I think that kinda illustrates the primary reason why the Targa Newfoundland is struggling - people, even gentlemen racers, don't have that kind of time for a single event. 

nutherjrfan said:

Vigo said:

I'm just glad i got to see a glacier in person before it was too late,

Well seeing as you went there unnecessarily.

 

I have been to hundreds of glaciers and literally have dozens of glaciers within 30 minutes from my door and they are all shrinking at an accelerated rate year after year. Most world wide are shrinking, few are listed as stable, even fewer are listed as growing. His original comment was actually pretty doggone valid.

Anyway, I'm surprised this lasted as long as it did. It's not quite the Isle of Man level of impact to the local community but IOM brings in a LOT more money and tourism to keep the locals happy about it.