So I was on another forum and we were talking about safety and classics. A number of them said they had installed roll cages in their daily driven classics. Of coarse I always heard that a roll cage in a street driven car was a bad idea because you can smack you head against the bars but in a classic were everything is hard metal any way does it really add any safety risk?
My impression is that the concern is as valid there as anywhere because it adds a nasty bump into the passenger compartment shaped well to put a dent in your noggin, as opposed to the relatively flat surfaces of the ceiling, pillars, etc. Of course, you can still hit the edges of the window openings and so on and so forth. Also I think older cars are more likely to collapse in a rollover (though that's an awfully broad statement).
I'm still torn overall. I think it's a valid concern. I also think that old cars can benefit so much from the increased rigidity that it's more compelling as a performance mod... That is, you're missing out to a greater extent by not doing it in a performance application than you would be in a more modern vehicle.
I remain undecided about whether my 2002 will get a cage, and am continuing to look at other ways to stiffen it up. It will be a semi-DD/autocross/track-toy.
unless you are wearing a helmet, arm restraints and have the cage fully padded, it is a bad idea on a DD street car. A proper shoulder/lap belt and headrests should do the trick without a roll cage.
it also depends on the car. I doubt I would run a full cage on a street driven classic.. but a roll hoop behind the seats would make sense. I would especially do it on a roadster
My N600 has a roll cage and door bars. It was a tin can in the first place, then I cut huge holes in it, so it seemed like the right thing to do. I've got padding on the cage, which is better than nothing, but I think about the lack of safety items every single time I drive the car and drive appropriately. I wouldn't EVER say my classic car with or without cage is anywhere near as safe as a modern car, but that doesn't mean I just have to get a modern car. It also doesn't mean I should resign to having a tin can N600 which I should never try to make more safe.
The safest thing is to not crash at all. If that's not possible because you appreciate getting off the couch, then pick your poison. Driving a vehicle is dangerous. I accept risk when I drive my car, ride my bicycle, cross the street, ride my motorcycle, etc.
Bryce
1 it ruins the lines:
vs
Obviously it depends on the classic, but I'd steer clear, If I was going to add anything it'd be a full cage, with a helmet, harness and arm restraints...
If your talented enough to build a proper bar or cage in such a way that it won't come in contact with you body, then go for it. If you are only talented enough to open a catalog and order a one size fits all cage or bar, then forget about it. I've seen cars built with an integral roll cage that you don't even see, because they are so well done. The Noble M400 has a cage integrated with the body and covered in suede. You don't even know it's there. Go to google images and check it out.
I race a car with a full cage. It's still street legal. It's an annoying PITA. The cool factor wears off in about 5 minutes. Safety? Only if you're wearing the 5 point harnesses, and even then your pumpkin is going to bounce off of a lot of SFI padding if you've built it right.
I also ride a motorcycle on the street. ANY car is safer to me.
I have roll bar in the GT6.
I can see a well placed bar in a convertible, but no need for a cage. Exception being the super-hidden-in-the-pillars type.
I have a street legal track car with a full cage, I rarely drive it on the street but I keep it legal in case I have to. I would consider a roll bar on a DD if I could put the bars as far from my head as possible, but I would probably not want to drive a full cage daily. For one it would be a pain to deal with and the safety factor of bumping my knoggin or other soft parts is a real possibility.
I get that on a semi modern or modern car with covered interior parts and crumple zones and all that kinda thing a cage is a bad idea but on a classic where you head is surround by hard objects anyway does it really increase the safety rick compared to not having a cage and the chassis just completely collapsing?
I am not in the "OMG you're gonna smash your pumpkin" camp.
I drive classics. In comparison to modern vehicles, they are DANGEROUS, no matter what you do.
If you are in a violent event significant enough to crush your head on a roll cage, then it is probably significant enough to crush your head on a steel dash, a non-collapsible steering wheel, a rigid B pillar, or any number of other items, especially considering the vast majority of them also have crappy seatbelts. And padding ain't gonna stop it.
My one exception is that a stupid designed clunky POS steel cage near your head is just plain stupid. I appreciate classics, and would NEVER build something that wasn't carefully executed. Most classics have either enough headroom to leave a little space, or don't require something big and clunky.
But none of my dd classics have cages. I always add decent seatbelts or harnesses.
In reply to 93EXCivic:
I agree with you about the issue of the collapsing chassis and/ or structure of the car.
This is kinda a thread hijack but relevant. What about smaller tubing? I know that organization rules dictate a minimum tubing size and type, but it would seem that smaller tubes would still provide more protection than nothing and allow for more "room".
Or, heaven forbid, rectangular tubing? Again, not meeting regulation standards but a whole lot better than the sheet steel between your head and the ground.
-Rob
In reply to rob_lewis:
For a car which isn't required to meet particular cage standards, I think that sort of thinking makes sense. I might even go further and contemplate boxing/expanding/reinforcing existing structures using formed sheetmetal.
I've been pondering ways to add rigidity to the 2002 without a conventional cage. I'm still trying to decide whether I'm particularly concerned about increasing rollover strength; that largely comes down to an eventual guess at how much time it'll really spend doing track days or hill climbs vs autocross and street where the only motivation is chassis rigidity.
Raze wrote: 1 it ruins the lines:
having owned quite a few 124s.. I find the clunky aftermarket chrome mirrors on the red one ruin it's looks more than the stock rollbar on the Blue Abarth below it. Yes, that is the stock bar that the rally cars had in street or "Stradale" trim.
My 76 and 77 both had autopower rollbars. The 76 I stuffed into the side of a buick without my head ever coming in contact with the bar
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