S10 lowering and traction bar conundrum

In reply to rustomatic :

This video shows does a good job of showing the difference in axle wrap before and after using basically the same traction bars as mine (with their axle side mounting location being arguably worse off than mine as it's closer to the axle center line therefore having less leverage to prevent rotation), showing a rod attached to the axle that confirms the amount of axle rotation during acceleration. Obviously their in the business of selling these parts but it seems like pretty solid evidence.

But it sound like we'll just have to agree to disagree, all I can say is that I've never experienced wheel hop in this truck with these bars in place so if anything they're better than nothing

In reply to edizzle89 :

This is exactly what I'm talking about, thanks for the video.

The ONLY way for the axle to wrap (outside the normal tolerances of bushings and such) is if either the BAR gets longer or shorter, or if the leaf spring magically grows longer in the front and shorter in the rear.  It has zero to do with whether or not there is a spherical bearing on the end of the bar

Apologies to the OP who wanted to discuss lowering his truck--my post-accident(s) brain wanted to tangent.

Normally, people will suggest never doing more than a 1-inch block, for a number of reasons.  You create a weird lever out of the axle the higher it gets from the spring (which of course promotes more wrap).  You might also change the relationship with the lower bars.

If you have a spring place near you (or you know a blacksmith), consider having your springs re-arched or having the front eyes moved to a mid or drop position (each level may provide 1-1.5 inches of drop).  This works way better than blocks, and it might be done kind of cheaply, especially if you like the current spring rate.

In reply to rustomatic :

It's an S10/15... your local unlicensed pharmacist on the street corner probably has a brand new pair of leafs for sale. Just buy the springs.

edizzle89 said:

I've recently aquired an 1994 Sonoma with a cam'd 5.3 and built 4l60, it's nothing crazy but a fun little truck to rip around in. One of the first things I'm wanting to do is lower it, somewhere around a 3/3 drop. The front is easy, some 2" spindles and 1" springs takes care of that. Usually the rear would be easy as well except the truck has what you'd call 'diesel style' traction bars which creates an issue when lowering the rear. The usual options are either lowering leafs or blocks, both of which seems like they'll cause issues.

 

you can see here the bar's I'm working with. With a 3" drop leaf I have concerns of the bar hitting the front leaf mount during regular suspension travel. And you can see in the next picture that any kind of block over ~2" would put the back of the bar below the wheel line and would make or an 'interesting' experience if I were to ever get a flat on the rear. I initially wanted to use a combo of zq8 leafs (~1.5 inch drop) and 1.5-2" blocks to get my desired drop but I cant find anywhere that produces new zq8 leaf springs.

 

 

I had a thought of a possible solution but I figured I'd check with people smarter than me to see if it's a bad idea. I had the idea of using 3" drop leafs then using a 2" lowering block between the bottom of the leaf and the leaf spring plate/shock mount. That would lower the bar back close to where it currently sits and should avoid any bar clearance/ground clearance issues. Is it dumb to put a block on that side of the leaf? are there any other concerns using a block there that I'm not thanking of? 

 

In typical budget fashion I'd like to keep the current bars since they are already there, they work great, and it still rides like a stock s10. Bigger wheels would gain me some room to work with when using blocks but that's a future plan. I though caltracs might be a solution but from what I've read/seen it still presents similar issues with lowering, for example:

Have you considered modifying the existing traction bar to mount to the lower shock mount stud?  I'm thinking use a longer stud, and attach the rod end between the mount plate and the shock?  Larger diameter wheels will also give you more clearance during the flat tire scenario.

Also, to free up high center ground clearance, how about moving the front mounting point of your bar from under the frame rail to along the inside face?  This would require boxing a portion of "C" channel frame.  But if you're using the factory gas tank, this is probably a no-go.

After trying many iterations of lowering, I highly recommend the ZQ8 springs front and back.  https://www.car-part.com/ shows quite a few options near your zip code.  Just give em a coat of rattle can and call em good.  But if you decide new is the only way, try https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/   I've not used them myself, but have heard good things.  Even if you don't use ZQ8 springs, do yourself a big favor and use the ZQ8 jounce bumpers at all four corners.  You'll thank me later.

I agree that drop spindles are the way to go also, but consider the Belltech 2102 instead of the 2100.  This allows the use of the 2WD SUV hub/bearing unit and twin piston calipers.  This makes for a better starting point for larger diameter brake upgrades in the future.

If you're interested, I could take a look through my box of leftovers I have from my lowering block/traction bar fab.  I think I might have a pair of 2" steel blocks you could weld tabs to.  I know I have templates of the front frame bracket and probably for the rear tabs too. 

Oh, and for more than a 4" rear drop, I'd recommend cutting off the rear jounce bumper frame bracket.  Then use a bolt on style jounce bumper mounted to the bottom of the frame rail.  This can be seen in the pic of my traction link setup that AngryCorvair posted earlier. 

In reply to JT :

I didn't think of using the shock mount but that would put in on a single shear point and with the stock mounting plate it dont think I'd trust it. I'd imagine you could make a stronger mounting plate and make it to also be double shear off that stud and it would work decent. I'm also keeping an eye on marketplace for a decent set of 17"-18" wheels for just street cruising use.

I am still using the factory tank so an inner frame mount is out, I plan to eventually swap to a Blazer rear tank and might reivaluate that option then.

For the springs I was wanting something new since my truck, and many other s10's that I've seen, has the infamous driver side lean. New springs all around should help clear that up.

I've placed my order of parts and now just waiting for the last few bits to come in. Speedway had a pretty good package deal on Speedway brand 2" drop spindles and Western Chassis 3" drop leafs. I also have 1" drop springs and 2" blocks to put under my leafs (if needed for clearance) coming from DJM.

I appriciate all your insight and has given me plenty of idea's for making a better clearing arrangement in the future