Saab 900?

I've just sold my old Alfa, in order to replace it with something cheaper and pocket a bit of cash. However, I'm going to need a new set of wheels quick-smart, which means buying a car within the week. What do y'all think of non-turbo Saab 900's?

The one I'm considering (below) is a 1990 EMS, 2.0l 5 speed manual. I love the look of the thing, and it's very cheap, with a full service history and all that jazz, but would it be any fun to drive? Many known issues? Should I just buy an E30?

I had a similar one with th automatic, and it was frustratingly slow. Other than that I loved it. Tons of room with the back seats folded, comfortable front seats, nice ride. If I had the chance, I'd buy another as long as it's a turbo 5-speed.

The 3 door is like owning a pickup truck. You won't believe how much it will haul. The 16v B202 engine is nearly bulletproof but performance isn't up to modern standards. The 5 speed is a plus; I wouldn't touch one of those with an automatic for free. Failure points are lower ball joints, motor mounts, exhaust systems, heater control valves, sticky parking brakes. You've got to have it in reverse to remove the key. The keys tend to twist due to the floor mounted switch, particularly cheaper aftermarket ones. Bodies are heavy and super strong; they are extremely safe. I never found them to be much fun to drive but people who liked them were seriously loyal about them. The newer replacement 900 paled in comparison to these, IMO. Parts can be pricey, which is why these have fallen from grace in the used car market. Cheap ones usually need quite a bit of expensive fixin.

Check for rust... especially around the front "frame"and the sheetmetal where the inner fender meet the subframe.

I think I read in the mag that these are crazy aerodynamically correct or something. Anyway, I love the looks of the body, but new wheels are a must...those things are hideous

Like others have said, way too slow without the Turbo. They are no E30 but can be made to handle and are very strong.

I learned to drive on a 4 door 83 non turbo, I will have an SPG at some point.

I love my NG900 (95+) but I would like to get an SPG..

FYI: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/nordic-metal/

How common are the transmission failure problems with those? It seems like people talk about breaking them alot, but then most of the cars i have had have been known for weak transmissions and i havent ever had one break.

my ng900 came to me with a broken reverse gear...

the only trouble with the transmission on the older 900s, other than being on the fragile (must be italian) side, is that it is UNDER The engine

Travis_K wrote: How common are the transmission failure problems with those? It seems like people talk about breaking them alot, but then most of the cars i have had have been known for weak transmissions and i havent ever had one break.

It's pretty common, but there are certainly transmissions that have a good long life, too.

The '89-'90 manual transmissions, while not infallible, are said to be the best of all years; earlier (smaller pinion bearings) and later (weak synchros) are more likely to have issues. A transmission mated to a non-turbo will have lived an easier life. Change the gearbox oil at ~15-20k miles for some cheap insurance. My favorite shop puts Redline MTL in their customer's cars. I use it, too, or Honda MTF.

Parts are reasonably priced at www.eEuroparts.com. There are only a small handful of parts that you would have to get from a dealer. Like many Euro-cars, they're full of Bosch stuff that's still available. Also, from 79-93 Saab made nearly a million of these cars, so despite their small presence in the industry, there is decent aftermarket parts support.

To the OP asking if it's fun to drive, I think it is, but I own two and am biased (see my Reader's Ride). That '90 will be fairly soft, but you can make things more interesting via the usual grassroots avenues: springs, shocks, alignment, sticky tires, poly. swaybar bushings, etc. Years ago, someone won a Solo2 national championship in a non-turbo 900.

thing to realise with that car being a front driver.. it uses A arms in the front, not struts. Makes for a much better handling car that you might think

Thanks for all the info, guys. procainestart, your 900 is nice! However, I've decided that if I go for a 900, I'm going to hold out for a turbo. The NA model was a just a little bit too sluggish.

I'm looking at a whole bunch of crap now, actually. Lots of French stuff . Might be sealing the deal on a turbo-diesel Peugeot 405. Otherwise there's a 405 Mi16, and an Alfa 90 to look at. I don't think any of those models are readily available in the 'States, and while I'd love a Miata, they're just not the bargain here (in Australia), that they are there.

We did get 405s here, but only the base gas version and the mi16, no diesels. Are alfa 75 twinsparks expensive there? One of those might be fun, although i guess not a huge amount different than an alfetta.

Twin-spark 75's are usually fairly cheap, around 4k AUD for a nice example. The main problem is finding one.

Looks like I've bought the 405 turbo diesel, anyway. Unless the owner flakes out between now and tomorrow.

Luke wrote: I'm looking at a whole bunch of crap now, actually. Lots of French stuff .

Italian cars too reliable for you or something?

Luke wrote: while I'd love a Miata, they're just not the bargain here (in Australia), that they are there.

ever considered the cheaper japanese model.. the eunos?

i think ur going to want a turbo model... the NA was rather, um slow... sometimes thought it needed to be pushed up hills on the highway... the turbo model=fun.

Check out the saabnet.com Classic 900 BB for the skinny on any issues with the car. Also, wander around the rest of the saabnet site and read any articles posted by old school 900 owners regarding fixes for weak points. also, they are wired with all the good cheap(er) sources for parts.

16v n/a motors have a lot of port area so mixture velocity is too low at low rpm. Therefore, they lack torque at the bottom but run nicely once the rpm comes up.

This particular model year car has the improved larger pinion bearing so just keep some good lube in there and you'll be fine. Trans lube temps are high since the engine sump is built into the tranny case.

Head gaskets can be an issue, the front crank seal (inconveniently located next to the firewall) leaks, and good coolant must be used to keep your aluminum castings from dissolving (Mercedes factory coolant recommended). Just watch what you put into the car and the thing will last a long time. They are good useful cars that swallow IKEA furniture like cheese and cracker snacks.

I'd love an old 900, but there's a family member who already has one that I specifically don't want to emulate.

Thanks for the compliment.

I've got a friend who's got a 405 (and used to have an Mi-16) -- he loves them.

If you want a project, turbocharging a non-turbo 900 is pretty straightforward. Turbo and non-turbo engines are identical except for the pistons (dish volume) and intake camshaft timing, so all you'd need to do is get a donor Turbo car and swap everything in. If you use hi-octane fuel, you can run the same amount of boost on a stock Turbo on a non-turbo engine but without the anemic low end.

More info here: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110394

Luke wrote: Thanks for all the info, guys. procainestart, your 900 is nice! However, I've decided that if I go for a 900, I'm going to hold out for a turbo. The NA model was a just a little bit too sluggish. I'm looking at a whole bunch of crap now, actually. Lots of French stuff . Might be sealing the deal on a turbo-diesel Peugeot 405. Otherwise there's a 405 Mi16, and an Alfa 90 to look at. I don't think any of those models are readily available in the 'States, and while I'd love a Miata, they're just not the bargain here (in Australia), that they are there.

Travis_K wrote: How common are the transmission failure problems with those? It seems like people talk about breaking them alot, but then most of the cars i have had have been known for weak transmissions and i havent ever had one break.

A c900 non turbo/5 spd should be ok gearbox wise as long as its been maintained and not abused, and the N/A 16v engine has enough power to at least get out of its own way. Heavily moded turbo c900s will eat gearboxes if they are driven poorly (shifting technique wise) and at some piont if you turn the boost up to much they eat gearboxes no matter how you drive them. If you buy it there are several good saab specific forums out there, I think there is even one based in Australia. If you don't want those wheels I'll take them

Well, I've bought the Peugeot . A 1994 405 D70 SRDT, to give it its full name. Engine is a 1.9 intercooled TD, with a 5 speed manual. Sounds like a tractor, and pulls nicely once the turbo comes on boost. For an oil-burner, it's actually a lot of fun.

Here's a photo from the seller's website. More to come later.

In proper GRM fashion, I almost came home with a Datsun 510 project, but luckily decided against that, for the moment anyway.

Luke,

I'd love to see photos and a write up of your thoughts on the car after you've had a bit of time with her. We don't get groovy stuff like that here in the states (I'm not saying if that's good or bad )

Sure thing! I've had enough seat time to bond with the car, now. Peugeot diesel's are renowned for being indestructible, and I certainly get that impression from the friendly chatter it produces at idle, and the gentle 'woosh' of the turbo at 3000RPM. Of course, it's very agricultural compared to a modern diesel, with noticeable turbo lag below 3K. Through city traffic, it's hard to keep the turbo on boost, and the gearshift is rather clunky, making the car less than ideal for such driving. Surprisingly, I found her to be in her element when hustled along a twisty bit of mountain road. Up-hill sections just didn't exist, and corners could be taken at an alarming rate of speed. The steering is nicely weighted, although the car does tend to roll a bit. As someone who's previously owned only RWD cars, I have a new-found appreciation for FWD handling!

Other neat features include: 45MPG economy, Pininfarina designed body, and a rad factory-fitted 10-stacker CD player mounted in the trunk.

However, it's not without its issues. I need to change the timing belt ASAP, fix the twisted throttle cable, and it could do with new tires on the front. I paid the equivalent of $1800 USD, which is a good deal less then these usually go for. With that in mind, I'll probably end up using it for a few months, then selling it on for a profit.

Despite appearances, the 405 D70 only weighs 2557 lbs, which is a few hundred less than I would've thought.

The dash top is like a wasteland of beige-coloured hard plastic. But the seats are ridiculously comfortable.

And yes, the goofy wing is factory fitted