Scraping an old gnarly head gasket

bamalama wrote: The machine shop worked on the head, not the block. The block is the problem.

Thank you.

As long as you are patient though

I feel as though perhaps you've forgotten who you're talking to.

Scotchbrite can and will damage aluminum. When those gasket removal whizz wheels first got popular, GM sent out a tech bulletin, to wit: if they got an engine back with 1) a complaint of lower end noise 2) the service history showed a intake gasket repair and 3) there were particles of aluminum embedded in the engine bearings why the dealership just bought themselves an engine.

Well, like I said, so far I've already gouged it pretty good with multiple razor blades, trying to "dig in" to get the blade to bite on the gasket schmang. I'll try the permatex gasket remover stuff (though I've already sprayed it with pretty much everything known to man,) and hit it with the blade again. If that doesn't work, I'll go for the scotchbrite wheel. I've got a couple of blocks laying around. Not so much on the heads.

Can't you get the block decked for like $50 or so? As long as this is a street car and rules don't prevent it, go for it.

<---- Is glad for the invention of steel head gaskets.

DILYSI Dave wrote: Can't you get the block decked for like $50 or so? As long as this is a street car and rules don't prevent it, go for it. <---- Is glad for the invention of steel head gaskets.

Yeah, plus the cost of a gasket kit and a weekend of removal, teardown, reassembly, and reinstallation. I'd be wearing out the scotchbrite if it were me.

My brother has some of those gasket remover things for a die grinder, instead of the red or blue scotchbrite type stuff, they are made of rubber. If I damage aluminum with something like that, I believe I'd quit working on cars.

bamalama wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Can't you get the block decked for like $50 or so? As long as this is a street car and rules don't prevent it, go for it. <---- Is glad for the invention of steel head gaskets.

Yeah, plus the cost of a gasket kit and a weekend of removal, teardown, reassembly, and reinstallation. I'd be wearing out the scotchbrite if it were me. My brother has some of those gasket remover things for a die grinder, instead of the red or blue scotchbrite type stuff, they are made of rubber. If I damage aluminum with something like that, I believe I'd quit working on cars.

How does decking the block = an additional teardown? Decking the block gives you the best surface possible.

You would have to remove it and take it to a machine shop, right? With a Scotch Brite and a die grinder, it stays in the car. Sure, decking gives you the best surface possible, but it's a lot more costly and time consuming, even if the engine is already out. Poop, if I can use a scotch brite to clean the surface without damaging it, I'm sure you could do the same. I'm sure the number of heads and blocks I've Scotch Brited is in the triple digits, and I've yet to berkeley one up.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

bamalama wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Can't you get the block decked for like $50 or so? As long as this is a street car and rules don't prevent it, go for it. <---- Is glad for the invention of steel head gaskets.

Yeah, plus the cost of a gasket kit and a weekend of removal, teardown, reassembly, and reinstallation. I'd be wearing out the scotchbrite if it were me. My brother has some of those gasket remover things for a die grinder, instead of the red or blue scotchbrite type stuff, they are made of rubber. If I damage aluminum with something like that, I believe I'd quit working on cars.

How does decking the block = an additional teardown? Decking the block gives you the best surface possible.

The machine shops I've been to aren't going to slap a fully assembled bottom end in the ol' Bridgeport.

I was thinking this was a full build, ie - bare block sitting there with gasket schmang all over it. If not, then yeah - decking is more work.

And yeah - it is un-necessary. There are plenty of ways to get it clean.

Block is still in the car. Goddamnit. Plan A was to find a running motor and swap the whole berkeleying thing in an afternoon. Couldn't find squat. Now everyone and their brother has one for sale...including 'savestheday's" rebuilt .040 over motor for $300. Between the gasket set, timing belt, water pump, and head work, I'm now into this piece of E36 M3 for more than that.

I couldn't find the scotch-brite wheel ANYWHERE, so I grabbed some "I know it works because it burned the hair off my fingers and I have testicular cancer" - gasket remover shmang, and have been scraping like crazy. 3 hours on Sunday yielded ~8 square inches of nice clean block. This is berkeleying retarded.

Hot air gun? Warm it up good then razor blade it?

Pick up that motor and swap it out. Then when you have free time, finish putting the current motor back together and then sell it or keep it as a good spare. Or return what parts you can and sell the motor in pieces for what you can get.

I don't trust other people's rebuilds. But if you can find a used but good motor that hasn't been into for three bills, put that in and you will be ahead in this game. Otherwise, razor blade that sucker.

poopshovel wrote: Block is still in the car. Goddamnit. Plan A was to find a running motor and swap the whole berkeleying thing in an afternoon. Couldn't find squat. Now everyone and their brother has one for sale...including 'savestheday's" rebuilt .040 over motor for $300. Between the gasket set, timing belt, water pump, and head work, I'm now into this piece of E36 M3 for more than that. I couldn't find the scotch-brite wheel ANYWHERE, so I grabbed some "I know it works because it burned the hair off my fingers and I have testicular cancer" - gasket remover shmang, and have been scraping like crazy. 3 hours on Sunday yielded ~8 square inches of nice clean block. This is berkeleying retarded.

Really? Is there a Harbor Freight or Autozone nearby? They pretty much always stock them. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3046 That's what you need right there.

pigeon wrote: Pick up that motor and swap it out. Then when you have free time, finish putting the current motor back together and then sell it or keep it as a good spare. Or return what parts you can and sell the motor in pieces for what you can get.

I've been really tempted to go this route. I'm just leary of throwing good money after bad.

Really? Is there a Harbor Freight or Autozone nearby? They pretty much always stock them. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3046 That's what you need right there.

DAMNIT! Yeah, that's exactly what I was looking for, but couldn't find. Vato-zone didn't have them, nor did O'reilly or Home Despot. I'm assuming these are for a die-grinder? In my head there should be a 4 1/2" angle grinder version. Waynimal has HF down the skreet, and he's talking about coming out to lend a hand this weekend. I'll have him grab a pack. How careful are you while "surface prepping" to not get E36 M3 everywhere? i.e., do I need to have wayne sit there with the shop vac while I destroy the block, or will a couple oil changes take care of the residual scotch-brite/gasket schmang?

What I've done in the past is put the piston at the top of the stroke. Clean off the whole area. Then drop the piston down and the gunk will be at the top. You also might try putting the piston at the bottom of the stroke and filling the cylinder with a bunch of rags. However you're more comfortable. Try not to drop anything down the oil/coolant passages. Some rags in there won't hurt either. Anything that does go down to the sump should get trapped by the screen and filter (hopefully). Pull the pan and clean it out afterwards.

I've never seen them for an angle grinder, just a die grinder available in 2" or 4" sizes. If you don't already have one, you'll need the proper mandrel for them. HF has that too for about $5. Something like this. http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/mtn8539.html

I usually try to stuff rags in any gaping holes(hehe), and what little bit of crap gets into the oil drain passages will get taken out during next oil change. The gasket material (and the disks) are usually turned to a fine powder and flung all over the place, so more of it ends up on your arm and face than in the oil/coolant passages.

I use Permatex Gasket Remover and a somewhat dull razor blade mounted in a holder. The key is to let the Permatex do most of the work by giving it time to soften the gasket, then scrape it off, or scrape off the part of the gasket that is soft, then reapply the Permatex and continue in this fashion until you reach the engine surface. Some gaskets will come off in layers. Don't force the scraper and you should be okay. I normally spray the Permatex in a plastic cup and then apply it with an acid brush to prevent overspray and maximize its coverage on the gasket surface.

I normally spray the Permatex in a plastic cup and then apply it with an acid brush to prevent overspray and maximize its coverage on the gasket surface.

Damn. Good call. I got that E36 M3 everywhere, and haven't bothered covering the oil/coolant passages. I've just been trying to scrape away from them, but the rags sound like a better idea.

Scotchbrite worked like a berkeleying charm. It took a whopping 20 minutes. She's back up and running like an ugly little Hong should. Thanks all!

I have killed two engines by getting dust from a brown Roloc "cookie" in the oil. Converts the 30-weight into 200-grit.

I normally use razor blades, and then emery cloth soaked in carb cleaner. (Unless it's for an MLS, then it's just a rag with carb cleaner, but that's usually all you need for those)

For the stubborn crusties, I have a sharpened plastic ruler. Use it like a chisel, with a hammer if necessary. Will not gouge aluminum.