I hear a lot about wanting to use a clutch and shifting. I understand that. Just as I also like to set points, tune carbs, and work on cars.
It's fun.
But it's not practical. It's a toy.
Transportation is getting to work, doing the shopping, making appointments. The stuff most of us use our cars for. Those? The less I even think about them the better.
That's why an EV. They are really reliable. Cheap to own both in time and cost. Instead spend $50+ at the gas station you drive to to buy gas you have your own gas station in the garage. Less than a minute to plug in and you don't have to stand in the cold or rain or heat while it's filling up. You just go in the house and let it do it's thing. No oil changes to either do or have done while you wait. Etc.
Treat a toy like transportation it's too time consuming. Demanding of time just to get to work. So effectively you have to work for no pay to get to work to earn money to fix what is needed. To get to work.
Keep a cheap Toy. To play with when you want. Ignore transportation vehicle.
I'm not separating Toys from Transportation. I have Toysportation.
That's your choice, but it's a compromise. Not a full blown toy or perfect transportation.
I like to race. So for $500 I bought a car to do that. Then as I get cash it's getting ready.
Meanwhile my daily driver so far has not demanded any attention from me.
No EV for me. Because car payments suck.
In reply to frenchyd :
Congrats on finally getting an EV!
NOHOME
MegaDork
9/2/23 6:31 p.m.
Fully agree on separating the toys and the toaster.
My happy place for years, has been a toaster to get me to work, a toy car that drives and a long term project car in the shop.
The most important one, and the one that gets the least love, is the toaster that makes me a living. It is a non-emotional, disposable object, that gets replaced every ten years for another toaster; its like changing prostitutes cause the last one got old. For all the reasons, I hate buying a new car above all else; worse than going to the dentist. The other two categories make cars fun.
If you are pitching EVs as the toasters (ironic since they burn so well ), I am not sold from any aspect of the genre. They are not green. They are not cheap to buy. They are not cheap to maintain. They have a defined lifespan to amortize the purchase. They ARE pretty quick, gotta give them that.
No thanks, the cars I fix actually work.
frenchyd said:
That's your choice, but it's a compromise. Not a full blown toy or perfect transportation.
I like to race. So for $500 I bought a car to do that. Then as I get cash it's getting ready.
Meanwhile my daily driver so far has not demanded any attention from me.
So have you purchased a new EV in the past 3 days or are you still driving your gas-powered truck?
In reply to 90BuickCentury :
Schroedinger's frenchy: both, and neither.
NOHOME said:
Fully agree on separating the toys and the toaster.
My happy place for years, has been a toaster to get me to work, a toy car that drives and a long term project car in the shop.
The most important one, and the one that gets the least love, is the toaster that makes me a living. It is a non-emotional, disposable object, that gets replaced every ten years for another toaster; its like changing prostitutes cause the last one got old. For all the reasons, I hate buying a new car above all else; worse than going to the dentist. The other two categories make cars fun.
If you are pitching EVs as the toasters (ironic since they burn so well ), I am not sold from any aspect of the genre. They are not green. They are not cheap to buy. They are not cheap to maintain. They have a defined lifespan to amortize the purchase. They ARE pretty quick, gotta give them that.
If you studied EV's rather than accepting biased reports. You'd find out only one battery company's batteries are involved in recalls and most of those fires. Hint it's not Tesla.
Buying any new car, EV or ICE is not green. But in modern society a necessary evil.
As far as EV's not cheap to maintain. Those who own them and report that ownership here on GRM would argue with you. Plus have the documented history. As would all my neighbors with them.
In addition the same people report the nominal fuel costs relative to ICE.
Finally the average price of a new car is over $11,000 more than you can buy the least expensive new Tesla. Plus Chevy is still selling the Bolt for even less than that. And Nissan is selling its Leaf for about the same money, not to mention future EV's
frenchyd said:
NOHOME said:
Fully agree on separating the toys and the toaster.
My happy place for years, has been a toaster to get me to work, a toy car that drives and a long term project car in the shop.
The most important one, and the one that gets the least love, is the toaster that makes me a living. It is a non-emotional, disposable object, that gets replaced every ten years for another toaster; its like changing prostitutes cause the last one got old. For all the reasons, I hate buying a new car above all else; worse than going to the dentist. The other two categories make cars fun.
If you are pitching EVs as the toasters (ironic since they burn so well ), I am not sold from any aspect of the genre. They are not green. They are not cheap to buy. They are not cheap to maintain. They have a defined lifespan to amortize the purchase. They ARE pretty quick, gotta give them that.
Buying any new car is not green. But in modern society a necessary evil.
As far as not cheap to maintain. Those who own them and report that ownership here on GRM would argue with you. As would all my neighbors with them.
In addition the same people report the nominal fuel costs relative to ICE.
Finally the average price of a new car is over $11,000 more than you can buy the least expensive new Tesla. Plus Chevy is still selling the Bolt for even less than that. And Nissan is selling its Leaf for about the same money, not to mention future EV's
So yeah, you DON'T own an EV still, yet you continually try to sell everyone on them. This is as stupid as me telling everyone that being vegan is so great, it's healthier and cheaper than eating meat and it tastes just as good or better than meat, while I'm chowing down on bacon cheeseburgers.
SV reX
MegaDork
9/2/23 10:37 p.m.
In reply to frenchyd :
It would be nice if you would stick to taking about Jaguars. I'm tired of your preaching about EVs when you have never owned one and don't know what you are talking about.
Buy one. Then start your own ownership log like Keith Tanner or Tuna.
I know a Model Y that's been in and out of the Tesla service center pretty often. And that's been for things like a leaking steering rack that have nothing to do with it being an EV.
I'm not sure I'm ready to uphold Tesla as a paragon of everyday reliability just yet.
SV reX
MegaDork
9/2/23 11:22 p.m.
In reply to frenchyd :
Then wait. And stop telling us we should buy one.
preach
UltraDork
9/2/23 11:25 p.m.
In reply to frenchyd :
EVs don't have Jag 12s bro.
Relax. Show us what you got when you get it.
NOHOME
MegaDork
9/2/23 11:25 p.m.
Last I checked the batteries on EVs were on borrowed time if they make it to 10 years.
When the batteries on a 10 year old EV die, the car is junk.
The current fleet of vehicles on North American roads is 12.5 years old.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of those 12.5 year old cars are electric. I dunno.
Anyone know what the shop rate at a Tesla dealer might be vs a "real car" dealer?
SV reX said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Then wait. And stop telling us we should buy one.
Like I said, you're free to keep buying ICE cars. You're free to keep believing all the bad things you read about EV's
But postings right here on GRM tell another story.
Here's what I do know. Nearly all car companies have decided to get on the EV band wagon. And as a percentage of new car sales EV's are increasing.
Those who get EV's early will get the government's help. But at some point that help will stop. If you follow the S curve of acceptance you know that once something becomes accepted by roughly 15% of potential buyers the rate of acceptance quickly turns into a nearly straight line up.
EV's will take about the same amount of time it took automobiles to replace horses. And just like horses there will always be some around.
I like my ICE's They are wonderful toys. But I do really look forward to saving money and the reliability EV's offer.
Before I even entered this thread I knew it would have to do something discussed in the analog car thread. While I'm going to agree that an EV is perfectly fine or even ideal as a daily commuter (I've even considered one but they're far too expensive), some people can't afford multiple cars or don't want to have them or don't have the storage for them and right now they're not a catch all vehicle cause of infrastructure and being a relatively new technology. There's the fact that a lot of people are renters and also blocks them from the practicalities/advantages of an EV. Finally, its as you said, some people just don't care or want one. We can have different preferences and opinions. That's all I'm gonna say here.
ddavidv
UltimaDork
9/3/23 7:08 a.m.
I frequently deal with Tesla dealers for work. It's why I will never own a Tesla. Has nothing to do with ICE vs battery.
https://evpartsonline.com/products/tesla-model-s-3-x-y-front-or-rear-drive-unit-oil-filter-new-2016-2022
This is not a late April fools joke. The Tesla that you keep saying does not need oil has oil filters & oil in the drive unit. At one time they had a replacement interval. That was removed to lower the cost of ownership. To not pick on Tesla most manufacturers have done that with transmission & differential services as well. But if you plan on owning one long term an oil change would be good for longevity.
I injoy driving my "toys" daily, this is different than driving a project daily. As long as it will reliably get you to work every day you do not have to limit yourself to an appliance.
SV reX
MegaDork
9/3/23 9:57 a.m.
In reply to frenchyd :
I am not a child. Stop treating me like one.
As far as I am concerned you have nothing to say until you actually buy an EV. You've been suckered by propaganda, and parrot BS.
You don't listen, you don't converse, you don't read, you don't follow links people share with you. You preach about something you have no experience at. Have you ever even DRIVEN an EV?
Your EV commentary is not making GRM a better place.
