BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz and Stellantis have teamed up to build “an unprecedented new charging network joint venture that will significantly expand access to high-powered charging in North America.”
The goal of the joint venture is to build some 30,000 high-powered D…
What charger plug are they going to use though?
no chance this is gonna be a cluster
Sweet! I'm going to miss stopping at Walmart every single charge....
In reply to Javelin :
It says in the item that they'll use CCS and NACS.
Covered chargers, perhaps?
Interesting, a bit late to get on the NEVI funding. No mention of suppliers for the chargers either. It'll be more interesting when there are details.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:no chance this is gonna be a cluster
Agreed. I had hopes until we got to the "all the chargers will be renewable".... I understand trying to make as many as possible, but it's not feasible IMO. But much like the model 2 all we can do is wait and see.
Very clever business model. They need infrastructure to support more cars so................
A. Put the charging stations near destinations people will want to be at; makes EVs more appealing
B. More people will spend more time at these destinations.
C. These companies can either charge the destination for having the chargers there or at the very least get a better deal on the facility based on the increased revenue for the destinations.
D. Overall makes EVs more appealing and that means more sales.
Any word about improving the existing (or even building new) power plants to supply all the needed energy for all these superchargers?
bobzilla said:AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:no chance this is gonna be a cluster
Agreed. I had hopes until we got to the "all the chargers will be renewable".... I understand trying to make as many as possible, but it's not feasible IMO. But much like the model 2 all we can do is wait and see.
Idk, that part seems easy. They'll probably just buy offsets or renewable energy to claim that every single electron came from renewables, even if it physically came from the coal plant next door.
The "we need better EV infrastructure for them to be truly viable options" side of me is intrigued. But the other side of me has some uneasy feelings about auto makers vertically integrating their product and its consumables. Real "company store" vibes. Just think about how much you hate your inkjet printer then apply that model to your car for a worst-case scenario.
In reply to JG Pasterjak :
True, but at-home EV charging is basically a large-scale version of those dorks that run their old diesel Mercedes on waste vegetable oil from the Chinese restaurant (we don't need big oil, mannnnn). I'm not sure how much I care if the networks are vertically integrated and expensive--I almost never have to use them. Public fast charging in its current form is basically only for road trips, and most people just don't do very many road trips vs. normal daily driving.
More of these fast-chargers solves the road trip problem, but I'm curious when we're going to start working on solving the apartment problem. Owning an EV and living somewhere where you're parking in a giant communal lot means using DC fast charging every week or two, which is expensive and an extra errand, plus the stations are really expensive to build. It would make way more sense to put in a row of cheap low-power chargers to let the residents charge overnight, but I don't see that happening at scale yet, at least not around here.
This thread is going to be awesome.
Tom Suddard said:In reply to JG Pasterjak :
True, but at-home EV charging is basically a large-scale version of those dorks that run their old diesel Mercedes on waste vegetable oil from the Chinese restaurant (we don't need big oil, mannnnn). I'm not sure how much I care if the networks are vertically integrated and expensive--I almost never have to use them. Public fast charging in its current form is basically only for road trips, and most people just don't do very many road trips vs. normal daily driving.
More of these fast-chargers solves the road trip problem, but I'm curious when we're going to start working on solving the apartment problem. Owning an EV and living somewhere where you're parking in a giant communal lot means using DC fast charging every week or two, which is expensive and an extra errand, plus the stations are really expensive to build. It would make way more sense to put in a row of cheap low-power chargers to let the residents charge overnight, but I don't see that happening at scale yet, at least not around here.
At home charging is the most appealing part of EV ownership... until the consortium of companies that owns the charging infrastructure says it voids your warranty to charge outside their approved and managed network.
I know I'm making a couple leaps here, but I'm also sitting next to a printer that calls the ink cops on me whenever I try and put in a cartridge that wasn't filled and sealed at the factory. I have no reason to believe car companies will act in any more of a consumer-friendly manner than printer companies when it comes to locking their own products into their own infrastructures.
I didn't see anything about dealing maintaining them once installed. All the incentives and funding are around adding new chargers, and the current non-Tesla chargers have significant problems with non-functional units. How are they going to ensure that they keep working after they are installed?
Tom Suddard said:In reply to JG Pasterjak :
I'm not sure how much I care if the networks are vertically integrated and expensive
As someone who negotiates contracts with tech companies, trust me you will care...............people who aren't involved in this have no idea how predatory many of these larger scale companies are.
JG is right to be concerned.
pkingham (Forum Supporter) said:I didn't see anything about dealing maintaining them once installed. All the incentives and funding are around adding new chargers, and the current non-Tesla chargers have significant problems with non-functional units. How are they going to ensure that they keep working after they are installed?
This is another issue.
Will all the VRBO listings now included the availability of charging when a house is listed. Will a plug in fee be added to the rental charge?
In TX the auto dealers association tried to get home built and kit cars made illegal by declaration. It took a lot of phone calls and legislative action to undue it. JGs concern isn't as much of a stretch as you think. There are many other concerns with all this too, but most would be uncomfortable discussing them.
However getting them to cooperate at least means there is money in it for them. I'm not convinced it is from profits though.
It this something separate from the Electrify America charging network? Are we going to have three competing networks now? Tesla, EA, and this new third thing?
In reply to Tom Suddard :
bobzilla said:AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:no chance this is gonna be a cluster
Agreed. I had hopes until we got to the "all the chargers will be renewable".... I understand trying to make as many as possible, but it's not feasible IMO. But much like the model 2 all we can do is wait and see.
Idk, that part seems easy. They'll probably just buy offsets or renewable energy to claim that every single electron came from renewables, even if it physically came from the coal plant next door.
Truly making these renewable powered would be very expensive. There would need to be a lot of battery storage involved, and they would take a fair amount of solar to charge. It would also be the most expensive kind of solar, since a free standing structure for the solar is more expensive than roof or ground mount. I think we are headed to battery storage EV chargers anyway, with or without solar, as a band aid mitigate the inadequate infrastructure to supply many of these chargers. Either way, these are going to be expensive, and nothing is free. I'm curious how much the of costs will be passed onto new EV purchases. I'm also skeptical of the time table. To open any stations by next summer, they would need to start ordering gear now.
thatsnowinnebago said:It this something separate from the Electrify America charging network? Are we going to have three competing networks now? Tesla, EA, and this new third thing?
There are a bunch of networks already, far more than EA and Tesla. This is just one more being announced. They'll compete just like gas companies compete.
It's not really a big news story other than the fact that other manufacturers have suddenly realized that Tesla is in a position to massively benefit from their long term investment in building and maintaining a network.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I wonder what Tesla is getting in payment for opening up their network. You'd think it has to be massive, as it's such a competitive advantage. I haven't seen details in any of the news stories.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
Good points.
Yet apartment dwellers up here in the artic wasteland very often have garages. Yes with electricity.
I see that as a profit center as well as an inducement.
No, those at the very bottom of the income scale who typically park on the street. Will have to wait for the city to put in chargers with the parking meters.
That won't happen until the EV /ICE ratio is closer to 50-50. Maybe by 2030? We are at 7% now.
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