Also rear springs are easy to change on a Panther, even swapping from air to coils. I snagged some h.d. coils and new-ish shocks from the junkyard and changed out my saggy, low rate rears in my driveway, no spring compressor needed. :)
Also rear springs are easy to change on a Panther, even swapping from air to coils. I snagged some h.d. coils and new-ish shocks from the junkyard and changed out my saggy, low rate rears in my driveway, no spring compressor needed. :)
SlickDizzy wrote:The_Jed wrote: I like to pre-load the shifter a bit while accelerating then when you let off the gas it pops out of gear while you're pushing in the clutch. Careful though, it takes a practiced hand to know how much pressure is ideal.Isn't that really bad for your synchros?
I'd think it just depends on how hard you preload it.
SlickDizzy wrote:The_Jed wrote: I like to pre-load the shifter a bit while accelerating then when you let off the gas it pops out of gear while you're pushing in the clutch. Careful though, it takes a practiced hand to know how much pressure is ideal.Isn't that really bad for your synchros?
No but it's really hard on the shift forks.
Why do people do things like this?
If you're not actually shifting the transmission, keep your hand off the shifter and your foot off the clutch.
I was always taught to keep the transmission in gear unless you were shift with the logic behind that being if you ever had to move quickly you could. I was also taught to drive a stick on 2 transmissions without syncros on first gear so that may make a bit of a difference too.
I developed the habit when I was a diesel mechanic and drove the trucks around a lot. I've never had an issue with shift forks or synchros.
I also enjoy heel-toe down shifts and the occasional double-clutch. Makes me feel more involved. :)
I would say above all focus on being smooth. Learn to rev match upshifts and then, once you get better, you can start rev matching down shifts as needed. Really, once the car is moving, you barely need the clutch once you get good. I know going from 2nd to 3rd that my rpms will drop roughly 1k. So I clutch in at 3500, let the needle fall to 2500 as I engage the next gear, then release the clutch once the rpms are where I want them. This makes for a very smooth and easy gear change, and is how a manual transmission car should ideally be driven.
Watch other people that dont know or care how synchros or manual gearboxes work, and you will see two things very often:
First, if they are the racerboy type, they will shift as fast as they can, meaning they usually engage the next gear before the needle falls to the optimal rpms. This results in the clutch having to slow down to match the engine, and will technically cause some extra/unneeded wear on your clutch.
Second, if they are the soccer mom type, They'll clutch in and make the gear change so slowly that by the time they engage the next gear and let up on the clutch, the rpms have already fallen far below what they should be. This means that when you let up on the clutch, the engine will have to catch back up to the speed of the wheels, and you will lightly shock the drivetrain a bit. The more astute passenger will wonder why they are constantly getting jerked around whenever you shift.
All in all though, dont worry too much or overthink it. It'll be second nature soon enough.
Coldsnap wrote: -Stop signs. So you need to drop into neutral to do a complete stop right?
Yes. Unless you want the engine to come to a complete stop as well.
Coldsnap wrote: -Just advanced techniques too, like I'm probably shifting at all the wrong times...
Most 4cyl cars that I've driven like an upshift at 3000, and a downshift at 2000.
1988RedT2 wrote:N Sperlo wrote: At a stop sign you can roll and stay in first gear, but that's not legal, is it?Eeeek! No! His transmission will spontaneously combust if he does this! Your foot should not be on the clutch unless you are actually starting out or changing gears. At a stop, shift to neutral and take your foot off the clutch. Okay, maybe no big deal, but that's the way I drove mine, and I got 170k miles out of the original clutch, and it was still fine when I sold the car.No need to drop into neutral. Just shift to first and leave your foot on the clutch.
Not incorrect, but at a stop-sign, there is no issue with him being in 3rd gear, slowing down, clutching, shifting to first, foot still on clutch, stopping, then going--clutch in almost the whole time.
Of course, most cases you can slip it into neutral for 50-100 yards and have your foot off the clutch, but I wouldn't worry in a modern car about having the clutch pedal to the floor for 5-10 seconds or less.
MCarp22 wrote:Coldsnap wrote: -Stop signs. So you need to drop into neutral to do a complete stop right?Yes. Unless you want the engine to come to a complete stop as well.
Again, not wrong, but he can leave the gear selector in 1st and just push the clutch to the floor--the gear selector does not have to be in neutral.
(Just want to make it clear for him--this can be confusing for a first timer, obviously)
Desmond wrote: First, if they are the racerboy type, they will shift as fast as they can, meaning they usually engage the next gear before the needle falls to the optimal rpms. This results in the clutch having to slow down to match the engine, and will technically cause some extra/unneeded wear on your clutch.
That's what this is for:
mtn wrote: Of course, most cases you can slip it into neutral for 50-100 yards and have your foot off the clutch, but I wouldn't worry in a modern car about having the clutch pedal to the floor for 5-10 seconds or less.
Didn't even think about a long roll to a stop. I always just downshift because sometimes I like to imagine my Focus is actually a Freightliner, so I rev-match and downshift. Let the engine do the work as I make Jake Brake noises. "WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP"
mtn wrote: Again, not wrong, but he can leave the gear selector in 1st and just push the clutch to the floor--the gear selector does not have to be in neutral. (Just want to make it clear for him--this can be confusing for a first timer, obviously)
D'OH! Good point.
Important notes that need to either be resaid or said in the first place. Never ever rest your foot on the clutch pedal when your not depressing it "riding the clutch". Second when coming to a stop, leave it in gear with the clutch engaged and let the engine help slow you down. When you are very good at manual (like a year from now) you can start trying to bother with downshifting to a stop, heel toe and other fun stuff but now just concentrate on driving smoothly and not burning up the clutch. Also starting on an incline scared me when I first started (didnt want to roll back into the guy behind me whos already on my bumper) use the ebrake to hold you and release it as you release the clutch, dont be scared to give her an extra amount of revs (1500-2000ish?) If you let out the clutch quickly. Obviously you shouldn't dump it but you shouldnt be slipping it more than 2 or 3 car lengths anyways.
Another, go sit in your driveway with the engine off, ebrake set, and get accustom to moving the shifter through the gears that way you wont have to think or look down to see where the next gear is. Youll get that 2-3 sec shift down to normal rates by tonight.
Telling you how to shift is like trying to explain to someone how to walk (or maybe even dance.) Do it for a while, until you can get around town and shifting is subconscious. Then get someone who is a decent driver to go on a ride and offer any suggestions.
Unless you're stalling or grinding, there's no "wrong" way to go, but there is definitely technique to be worked on once you've got it down. I'm amazed at how many people that I instruct at HPDE still can't heel/toe or rev-match a downshift, but they still get around the track.
Kudos for doing it. Save the manuals!
As for slow shifting, don't worry about it. Keep it between stall and grind. It takes a while for a brand new car to break in. Most non-abused manual transmission are much better at 100k miles than new in my experience.
When you get around to being able to heel/toe/rev match a down shift, you'll enter a zen-like state. Then you'll hit stop and go traffic and it will be over.
when just driving around, i only use the clutch for starting and stopping.. upshifts are accomplished by letting off the gas and pushing the shifter into the next gear- it pulls itself into gear when the rpm of the crankshaft matches the rpm of the gears in the trans. i put the trans in neutral with foot off the clutch when sitting at stoplights or whatever.
i found that leaving the gas pedal at WFO and slamming the clutch pedal in, pulling the trans to the next gear, and releasing the clutch as fast as you can (known as "powershifting") made even my OHV 4 cylinder 97 and 98 Cavaliers fun to drive- they actually barked into 4th gear and felt fast.. i tried clutchless upshifting at WFO in those cars, but the trans just made pissed off sounding grinding noises at me...
novaderrik wrote: when just driving around, i only use the clutch for starting and stopping.. upshifts are accomplished by letting off the gas and pushing the shifter into the next gear- it pulls itself into gear when the rpm of the crankshaft matches the rpm of the gears in the trans. i put the trans in neutral with foot off the clutch when sitting at stoplights or whatever.
I would not recommend trying this until you have quite a bit of experience driving a manual transmission. It is a very handy skill to have, as it will get you home if you ever have a failure that keeps the clutch engaged, but doing it wrong can cause some serious damage!
Pretty much what everyone said, and I take it out of gear at a stop.
Something handy I was told a long time ago that's help me when drag racing.
1 to 2 hand on right side of shifter up and down
2 to 3 hand on top of shifter slightly to the left
3 to 4 hand on left side of shifter up and down.
When I was going to the track alot it really cut down on miss shifts and grabbing the wrong gear, kept me from over revving going from 3rd to second at redline.
Around town though my hand is always jn the same spot since I'm not usually drag launching at stop lights.
Oh and I don't engine brake. I used to and a driving instructor told me to stop because bad habits on the street translate to bad habits on the track.
Haven't been back to a road course or auto cross but it always stuck with me. I'd like some of the more seasoned racers opinions on this
Opti wrote: Oh and I don't engine brake. I used to and a driving instructor told me to stop because bad habits on the street translate to bad habits on the track. Haven't been back to a road course or auto cross but it always stuck with me. I'd like some of the more seasoned racers opinions on this
Not sure what you mean by this. You mean don't let off the gas and coast with the car still in gear? Absolutely nothing wrong with that. You mean shifting down and slowing the car by dragging the clutch? Yeah, don't do that - wears the clutch lining faster.
SlickDizzy wrote:novaderrik wrote: when just driving around, i only use the clutch for starting and stopping.. upshifts are accomplished by letting off the gas and pushing the shifter into the next gear- it pulls itself into gear when the rpm of the crankshaft matches the rpm of the gears in the trans. i put the trans in neutral with foot off the clutch when sitting at stoplights or whatever.I would not recommend trying this until you have quite a bit of experience driving a manual transmission. It is a very handy skill to have, as it will get you home if you ever have a failure that keeps the clutch engaged, but doing it wrong can cause some serious damage!
Additionally, most modern synchro boxes hate this no matter how good you are. I can clutchless shift a suzuki swift/turbo sprint all day long, but something like a focus or golf? Forget it.
If you haven't already the best way is to learn how it works.
You can sit at a stop light in 1st with the clutch in, it's just hard on the throwout bearing to hold it down for very long. I generally pop it in neutral (and get off the clutch) if I'm sitting more than 10 seconds or so.
I've come to believe that part of the joy of driving manual is the connection to the process and the understanding of what you are actually causing inside the mechanical bits.
So, to that end, when you can look at a parts explosion of a manual trans and trace out power flow in each gear, and when you can perform a double-clutched+rev-matched downshift and understand how it works and why it's useful, you will truly know how to drive/experience the biomechanical synergy that is the manual trans! 
wlkelley3 wrote:szeis4cookie wrote: This is something that helped my technique, and maybe something you could try: try to get your car rolling from a dead stop using only your left foot, and see if you can get up into 2nd or 3rd without adding throttle. Once you get more familiar with how your clutch feels it'll be easier to execute a smooth shift quickly.My dad had me doing that when he taught me to drive. He also had me look away and he put it in a gear and I had to start from a stop in whatever gear he put it in. 3rd takes some clutch slipping and higher revs but can be done. 4th can be done to but really a pain. Not something you want to do regularly.
This is essentially how I was taught, as well as how I teach others. Works like a charm. It's surprising how many long-time manual trans drivers don't even know that this is possible.
As far as shift points, yeah keeping them higher (~3000 rpm vs <2500rpm) is good if you're not totally sure what gear you'll need or may not have time to react as quickly to a necessary gear change. However, using lower rpm with a little more throttle is generally more efficient than higher rpm with a little less throttle. Basically as long as the engine is currently running smoothly and the application of a little more throttle results in a little bit of still smooth running acceleration, you're not lugging it. I can't say that I've driven a modernish 4cyl car that isn't perfectly content to float around 2000rpm when driven modestly on reasonably level ground. In other words having the rpm after upshift being roughly the same below 2k as it was above 2k before the upshift...And conversely for downshifts.
Keep it in gear at ALL TIMES. The split second it takes to find first gear while staring at the 18 wheeler in the rear view can be a life time!
ColdSnap, there are no friends or neighbors that understand the mysteries of the third pedal?
Bring the engine up to 1200 - 1500 rpm, gently, keeping your heel on the floor and wiggle your toes; gently ease the clutch pedal off the floor.
Now the dance: Raise the clutch pedal up and/or press the gas to move forward BUT keep the rpm at 1200. Revving the engine without forward motion is slipping the clutch, bad juju. Beak bad habits early.
Do this proficiently and then we'll talk about down shifting.
You probably don't get much snow in Raleigh, but up here I prefer a stick. You can slow the car down without touching the brakes propagating loss of traction.
Nice car.
Dan
A good way to think for smooth shifting is that your hands and feet should move at the same speed when moving the gear lever and clutch pedal.
I taught my kids that way, it helped them to minimize the herky jerky feel when shifting.
That and I made both of them learn to rock the car back and forth off the clutch on an incline.
The rest is, as many have said, time in the seat.
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