diesels are interesting. I feel like ex-police or other government vehicles was tossed around previously, and I think it has some legs.
The no-big-mods thing is basically the old "caveman" class. I think it's too complicated for an annual theme. part of the fun is seeing what sort of silliness people come up with to fit the theme, so keeping it a bit loose helps.
Apropos of nothing, the CAM sub-class would be very interesting if GRM could persuade somebody to bring a nationally competitive CAM car to highlight the difference in price chasing a second will get you in autocross. It may not be fun for all of the die-hard challenge builders, but it would absolutely make great editorial content.
Plus, if I can get my FIL to commit to building his Belvedere, that's where it would run. Being able to tempt him with "there will be a bunch of classic muscle cars running this year" would be good for me.
In reply to bluej :
I agree on keeping it loose and having loopholes in subclass, I.E. where a vehicle may have not been designed and manufacturered for the factory as such, but now has been made into such (think homemade pickups, t tops, heck someone could do a landeau top and gm3800 swap a Miata for malaise class.
I have another suggestion, benchseat class. 1.2 lateral Gs only helps so much when half of your body is smashed into the driver's door.
another thought is a "reunion" year. people have been bringing back their previous "theme" vehicles anyway, and may encourage people who started builds for previous themes but didn't finish (like me). I'm about done putting the 2.5 duratec in my b2300 and it's still challenge legal.
I've never gone and probably won't build a challenge car (already have more projects than life remaining), BUT, I do enjoy the build threads, seeing what shows up that's out of the ordinary, watching the videos, and the theme cars. Has anyone proposed a theme car sub class? That way people could build cars with a theme and then remove the theme afterward and use the car for other purposes, following challenges, or sell them more easily than say a stripped out luxo barge or soccer mom car on steroids. I'm thinking that could make the challenge sub class entries more in line with something you'd expect at an event put on by the "Hardcore Sports Car Magazine". The theme cars could also be more competitive with the rest of the field.
Wide body IMSA flares on a vehicle not raced in the 80’s
Spec e36 but not expensive.
Most rusty body 80s Japanese car with out trying to cause self harm.
SAAB shootout?
Dusterbd13 said:Engine swap class. Anything is fair game as long as it doesn't have a factory drivetrain
What about going in the other direction, “must keep the original drivetrain (or engine family) but can modify it as much as you want”, but with a twist: the original factory rating must be less than 100 horsepower ?
That would open it to air cooled VW/Porsche based vehicles, CRX/civic, early GTI, and other similar offerings with low power from the factory but with some handling and performance potential.
The hp limit also excludes vehicle like the Miata and pony cars, but leaves some appealing options
Basically a chance to show how far you can take a sub-100hp car without resorting to mild or wild engine swaps.
Someone mentioned vintage. How about an air-cooled class?
Dusterbd13 said:Engine swap class. Anything is fair game as long as it doesn't have a factory drivetrain
Wreck Racing will gladly bring back the Insight...
JtspellS said:SAAB shootout?
That reminds me, wasn't orphans in general discussed at some point?
CrustyRedXpress said:In reply to Indy-Guy :
Older stuff isn't my thing, but i think it would be a great to see more vintage metal at this event.
A class for British classics would generate some editorial content for the sister publication as well.
Is a sub-2k vintage racer even possible?
Yes! Fiberglass replica’s of rusty parts is doable. Take the original metal fender/ trunk lid, door, hood etc. tape over the holes and bondo things smooth. Sand smooth and Blow a coat or two of paint to smooth the lumps and bumps. Wax the heck out of the part and spray a layer of PCA as a release agent. Spray a layer of Gelcoat on and either do a hand layup or use a chopper gun to make the mold. Up to now you haven’t spent a cent according to the rules.
You can use Matt, cloth, or chopper gun and make the actual part very cheap. Only the actual parts you use count.
Make a square tube chassis with a lot of triangulation and suspension that unbolts completely. Mustang, Jaguar, lots of front and rear suspensions come off complete with steering and brakes.
Put a reasonably decent engine in it and yes you could do the car under the 2019 budget.
Kreb said:Someone mentioned vintage. How about an air-cooled class?
Irish44j had mentioned a "front engine Porsche" class before he deleted it. Could be an interesting combo.
"I already own it" class.
I guess it could also be called a judged exhibition class, but the theme would be classics that are already owned. The car is zeroed and you can spend the budget on getting it ready. The goal would be to get cars like my MGB GT out of the corner and into action. There are a lot of interesting cars in the collective herd that would enjoy the opportunity to compete with their peers at a challenge without the need to go full race-car.
NOHOME said:"I already own it" class.
I guess it could also be called a judged exhibition class, but the theme would be classics that are already owned. The car is zeroed and you can spend the budget on getting it ready. The goal would be to get cars like my MGB GT out of the corner and into action. There are a lot of interesting cars in the collective herd that would enjoy the opportunity to compete with their peers at a challenge without the need to go full race-car.
I like this idea a lot. Kind of a GRM spin on what the road kill guys have been trying to do. Get more cars out of time out and onto the road.
Orphan class sounds like fun. Just a bunch of dead brands, like Saab, Satun, Merkur, AMC, Mercury, etc.
Could have lots of funny themes revolving around "Extinct Class" or "Endangered Species" with dinosaur paint jobs or EPA warning labels.
yupididit said:
+1 for true malaise
As suggestion to add to CAM- TransAm. Anything that ever ran in any TransAm race.
That would include VW's, Datsuns, BMWs, and others along with a wide range of cars over many years- including pretty much any decent muscle car.
The "vintage" class has been done, but I don't know the last time it happened (I have the 2004 trophy for that class).
Maybe the eVil Alliance needs to make a comeback, too.
Funny, most ideas suit my thoughts as far as small engine, vintage, un modded or very modded limited production/years made.
Corvair, Fiero, C-4(not small engine)
Patrick has a two of these makes one now.
From a magazine standpoint, CAM is a great idea.
From pure entertainment, not as interesting as the Aristocrats, vans and wagons have been.
Another idea is pick an actual autocross class, or prep level, to build to. Street Prepared, Prepared, Modified, etc- and stick to a specific rule set.
Pick a level and run with it. Bonus if you manage to run it at Nationals the month prior to the Challenge.
No Time said:Dusterbd13 said:Engine swap class. Anything is fair game as long as it doesn't have a factory drivetrain
What about going in the other direction, “must keep the original drivetrain (or engine family) but can modify it as much as you want”, but with a twist: the original factory rating must be less than 100 horsepower ?
That would open it to air cooled VW/Porsche based vehicles, CRX/civic, early GTI, and other similar offerings with low power from the factory but with some handling and performance potential.
The hp limit also excludes vehicle like the Miata and pony cars, but leaves some appealing options
Basically a chance to show how far you can take a sub-100hp car without resorting to mild or wild engine swaps.
I like the idea.
Or "Not sold here"
Though I don't know how much of a turnout you would get with the latter idea. Either way, I likely wouldn't be competing, due to my aforementioned inability to keep and file receipts, and the fact that I have no proof of what I paid for the Alto.
I have been involved with the special class since its inception and have built a car for each of them. Heck, I entered two in the aristocrats and two in the pickups. I will bring a car for whatever we decide to run 2019. Having said that I think its important to remember that this event is ultimately a fun excuse for generating editorial content.
While malisse era leviathans, Korean vehicles or ex-police cars would be entertaining I think the CAM suggestion is the best thing suggested so far from the magazine standpoint. Some of the malisse cars could work for CAM as could a few ex-police vehicles.
I asked Tommy and David at the town hall what they would like to see from the special class and they mentioned something that the magazine readers would like to see. I think CAM fits the bill nicely and is open enough for some interesting interpretations.
Another thing that several of us discussed was a tire class. We discussed a tread wear limit or a price cap to introduce a build strategy conundrum. While this would make for some interesting design compromises and would make the requirement for purple crack in the autocross moot it would ultimately be less applicable for the average GRM reader than a CAM class. Also the CAM 200 treadwear requirements sort of dovetail nicely with one of the treadwear requirements suggested.
I vote that next years special class be Scca CAM eligible vehicles...
It's time for a Fiero subclass
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