How about a car that can be both?
Ok, so the 'historically important' part may be a stretch 
, and it's - only - autox, but this car does have 4-in-a-row national championship wins on top of many other podium finishes. Not many autox cars out there can claim that.
My goal is to get it back into fighting shape and drive it to and from events as well as use it as a fun street car.
"provenance" Best spoken with a French accent and a pinky finger extended. :)
Provenance is just a story that some folks think makes something worth more than a sane person would pay for something.
Original paint is what all my junk has, because I can't have anything nice (it's gonna get scratched).
It's all in how you look at stuff, so many look at livery, that only impresses people at the bar. I look for Shocks, brakes w/balance bar, shocks, Tires, adjustable steering rack to fix bump steer, did I mention shocks. It's gotta turn a corner or it's just a tart in a dinner dress.
Don't let me anywhere near your original paint museum piece, if nothing else I'll leave greasy fingerprints on it..... :)
Race cars were made to be flogged, enjoyed to the fullest. I don't get all tingly looking at a car, but slipping and sliding one gets me all worked up.
Historic can also be interpreted by us individually. If I had the money for any 70 Boss Mustang and could choose between the Bud Moore/George Folmer car and the John Hall car I’ll take the John Hall car. To me the John Hall car is more important it was local to me the car ran in Tran Am, and I saw it ar Westwood, that car is far more historically important to me than a Bud Moore car.
In reply to Apexcarver :
I'm running my 1987 Novakar F500 with VARA (Vintage Auto Racing Association) on the west coast. They put me in the wings and slicks group. This group consists of cars from the early 70s to the early 90s; everything from Sports 2000s to Formula Atlantics. I still have the AMW motor in the car, once I install the Rotax 494 I expect to be running somewhere between 4th-6th in a 12-15 car group (currently finshing 10-12th)
Formula Fords tend to have there own group at vintage races, as well as running on treaded tires, so I suspect they wouldn't put you there.
VSDCA is allowing 494 powered cars at their fall vintage race at Road America.
As for history my Novakar is the 3rd chassis Jay Novak built; he podiumed with it at a pro race back in the late 80s; so while it has some history pretty sure I won't be running it at the Monterrey Historics any time soon.
Apexcarver said:In reply to frenchyd :
For most it's a question of what vintage eligible year GCR you are prepping for, the engine may not have become eligible in an elgible year. I do need to dig deeper to see if there are vintage orgs near DC that would let me run. My class paces well with club ford, so there would be cars to run near.
In 40 plus years of vintage racing I've never seen a cars engine torn down to check for legality.
Quiet, private discussions about sportsmanship, yes but often you'll be the only one in the class. Oh, you'll be put with cars of roughly similar performance so you can have a fun time dicing and racing with others. But you'll come in from those smiling and happy. Not worried if you're under weight or violated some rule that will deprive you of your finish.
I'd like to think it's because of the quality of the Ladies and Gentlemen who race. But in reality it's just about having fun and knocking off the regulations and hassles. Tech inspection is just to ensure that you'll have a safe event. The history of the cars has already been written.
As far as the DC area? Look at any race track in the area ( VIR? ) you'll see vintage groups. SVRA is the one I'm most familiar with. I've been going to their events since the late 1970's but in addition there are always smaller local groups. Sometimes made up of corner workers, Local SCCA members with interest in low pressure fun, and the usual group of old geezers like me. Sometimes just finding the group is the hardest part.
But come, try it out.
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
There is a guy vintage racing a multiple national championship Autocross Datsun 510 with us. The car gets invited to all of the big events because it does have history. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss it just because it's not road racing history.
Rons said:Historic can also be interpreted by us individually. If I had the money for any 70 Boss Mustang and could choose between the Bud Moore/George Folmer car and the John Hall car I’ll take the John Hall car. To me the John Hall car is more important it was local to me the car ran in Tran Am, and I saw it ar Westwood, that car is far more historically important to me than a Bud Moore car.
Out of couriosity have you ever considered finding an old Mustang of the era? Fixing it up and painting it like the John Hall car? The trick to finding one cheap is just that, finding one. Chances are it's sitting behind a garage, in a barn, shed, or in a field. Dented, rusted, or just forgotten. Buy it for something you can save for, or even take out a small personal loan.
Then haul it home ( or have someone haul it for you) and slowly start the process. Instead of a fancy dinner or evening out buy something for it. Mustangs have nearly every part available in reproduction but you probably can get hooked up with fellow Mustang collectors or guys who make money finding and selling old Mustang parts.
Live your life with a purpose, a goal. Focus on it and don't get distracted. Next thing you know you'll be sitting on a grid with the car of your dreams.
racerfink said:When it comes to vintage race cars, if the car ran up front, was part of a factory team, or had big name drivers, the tub is probably the only thing left that’s original.
Not too many tace cars make it through two or three seasons of racing without a significant portion of the car being repaired and/or replaced at some point.
I'm not so sure that is valid. The Scarabs were always entered by private groups. Yes they had deep pockets. And towards the end of the 60's there were quiet nods to the source of those funds. The Miester Brau special. Or Penske with the Telar special. Those cars remained pretty solid. The classic one is David Love who briefly drove for Ferrari and his payment was the Ferrari Testa Rossa he raced for the rest of his life. ( and then his heirs sold it for 56 million dollars )
Tom1200 said:In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
There is a guy vintage racing a multiple national championship Autocross Datsun 510 with us. The car gets invited to all of the big events because it does have history. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss it just because it's not road racing history.
Vintage racing isn't like that. Provenance or not the cars are welcome at most events. Maybe to get invited with the premier clubs to premier events, but even there I was welcome with my BlackJack Special with only a modest regional history. Now part of that may have to do with the driver/entrant. If you seem to be the right sort of "Gentleman/Lady" you'll be welcome.
frenchyd said:Tom1200 said:In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
There is a guy vintage racing a multiple national championship Autocross Datsun 510 with us. The car gets invited to all of the big events because it does have history. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss it just because it's not road racing history.
Vintage racing isn't like that. Provenance or not the cars are welcome at most events. Maybe to get invited with the premier clubs to premier events, but even there I was welcome with my BlackJack Special with only a modest regional history. Now part of that may have to do with the driver/entrant. If seem to be the right sort of "Gentleman/Lady" you'll be welcome.
Note I was strictly talking about premier events. The vintage club I run with will find a place to run most cars, the small clubs cannot afford to be overly picky.
An old BMW like in the picture? Sure, that is hot.
An old Cavalier Street Stock car. No.
In reply to noddaz :
I used to feel that way. Some cars were worthy others not. But once you start meeting their owners and having them tell you their story you tend to get a little more open minded. Then maybe you see him out on the track driving with such exuberance and skill you understand that that modest car is all he can afford.
Maybe he's a man of God and most of his money goes to the poor, or a father with children he devotes most of his income to?
Sure we'd all like expensive Ferrari's but they could legitimately look down their noses at a BMW sedan. What would we think of them if they did?
In reply to frenchyd :
My son and I drove past some mundane little econo-box this past weekend and I pointed to it and told my son "I'd track that and rape the E36 M3 out of it" He just laughed because he knows I mean it. I'm basically doing that with our Datsun 1200.
Those Austin A35s running at Goodwood look like fun to me.
I want both: A Street Car I can take to the Track occasionally.
That would be Track Days an maybe a Auto X, not Door to Door.
I would not want any really exotic vehicle, I think I would worry to much to enjoy.
In reply to GM > MG :
What's funny about the US vintage scene is we seem to think historic cars absolutely must be trailered yet in Europe and the UK people routinely drive their historic cars to events.
Check out Simon Taylor's Stovebolt Special he drives this car from the UK to events all around Europe.
They are either show cars or race cars, never the twain shall meet.
In reply to Tom1200 :
The difference is distance. Here in America a long trip is measured in a thousand miles or more. In Europe a long trip is a 100 miles or less.
Tom1200 said:In reply to GM > MG :
What's funny about the US vintage scene is we seem to think historic cars absolutely must be trailers yet in Europe and the UK people routinely drive their historic cars to events.
Check out Simon Taylor's Stovebolt Special he drives this car from the UK to events all around Europe.
I drove our Lemons/Champ/WRL race car to all the races(around 20 races) except 2. A few times it wasn't driven home. We were the first Lemons winner to drive the car to and from the track. One time I passed the Lemons judges on the interstate on the way to the track. They said I blew their doors off. I said if a car can't make a couple hundred mile trip on the highway, it sure isn't going to do a weekend of WOT.
In reply to frenchyd :
These guys are doing way more than 100 miles
Tim Dutton and his team drive Bugattis the 900 miles from their base in the UK to the Monte Carlo for the Historic races, race the cars and then drive them home again.
London to LeMans is 400 miles or so and several competitors drive from the UK drive to the Lemans Classic
Simon Taylor routinely does hundreds of miles to events in the Stovebolt special.
I don't know the mileage for Peking to Paris but people drive 20s Bentleys.
Competitors used to drive the cars to and from LeMans back in the day; there is no reason someone couldn't do that now. There are 5 or 6 street registered cars at the vintage races I attend.
My old race car was not a great cruising car.
I don't think the trip to NHIS or Lime Rock would have been alot of fun and those were only 3-3 1/2 hours away... Never mind the Glen.
Plus my brother drove and I slept. You gotta be well rested to win!
LOL
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