Stupid Mustang Convertible top won't go up...

Been having intermittent issues with the top on my '07 GT.  Right now it doesn't want to extend back up.  The windows go down like they should, but no noise from the top and no movement.

This car had an aftermarket "automatic" switch added by the PO.  It was being fussy like this last fall and I took it to an upholstery / convertible specialist, and they found a bunch of loose wiring.  They tidied everything and gave it back to me, and it seemed fine for a while.

It started causing problems again, and so I bit the bullet and removed the auto switch.  I hoped that was faulty and was causing the issues.  Alas not.  Today it doesn't want to go back up again.  Here I was starting to trust it again...

Anyone?

From what I gather, the motor is behind the rear seat.  Does the motor make noise?  Time to break out the multimeter.  May be a hydraulic problem, down on fluid, or a bad cylinder.  Fuses? Relays?

https://www.justanswer.com/ford/2p96c-manually-close-roof-2007-ford-mustang.html

My 1989 Mustang looked and worked like my 1969 Cougar.  Maybe your 2007 is the same?  Electric motor/pump combo behind the back seat with plastic lines sending ATF to two cylinders behind the rear passenger interior panels.  The pumps are easily heard when they run.  No problems with my Mustang when I owned it but my Cougar had a slow leak on one of the cylinders.  The top gradually slowed down and then finally stopped moving entirely.  Replaced the cylinder and fitting, refilled and bled the system and everything is good again.

Look at CJ's Pony Parts website.  They have a lot of great videos available.  

Thanks, guys.  I'll dig into that instruction sheet and see what I can find.

It is a similar system - electric pump with hydraulic cylinders.  I don't here the pump running at all right now.

I checked fuses, and they seem fine.  Is there an easy way to confirm the relays are working?

The switch is fine, as it will send the windows down first.

Worst case, the car is due at the dealership for (yet another) airbag recall.  I could have them throw parts at it, but I'd rather not.

Have you checked the Mustang forums for more info? Might be a better place to start.

In reply to smokindav :

Ugh.  They're always so spammy and full of pop-up ads.  And those who frequent them seem to be more full of attitude than advice.  I've tried but not had good success.

Not a fuse or a relay.  I went thru the easy things.

Information is pretty spotty, based on my searching so far.  Probably this has to do with interlocks between the windows and the top.  IE the windows need to be all the way down for the top to move, and the windows can't move when the top is in motion.

I've been trying to figure out how to tell if the windows are returning an "open" signal.  I've yet to find anything indicating where I might find a sensor in the door.  Maybe it's integral to the window motor?

I read somewhere that the dealership could use their scanner to see if the windows were returning the correct signal.  Would this show up on an OBD2 read, or only with the factory scanner?

Dealer scanned it, and they say the pump/motor is bad.  They say they need to replace the whole unit - pump and cylinders both at $2K for the whole job.

Reading up a bit more, but I'm sorely tempted to do it myself.  I don't think the cylinders and everything need to also be replaced.

Picked up the car, and paid the dealer $100 for the diagnostic work.

Found a new pump/motor available here:

https://www.convertibletopguys.com/convertible/1261/2005-2014-Ford-Mustang#hydraulics

I'll get that ordered on Monday, probably with their Hydraulic System guide.

I'm a little disappointed that I just bought a Chilton guide, and it mentioned exactly ZERO about the convertible top system.  Not very helpful there.

I wasn't feeling like trusting the dealership's diagnosis.  They always come up with the answer that'll cost the customer the most money.

So today I tore the entire back seat and everything out, and started diagnosing.  Wiring to the pump seems fine.  Relays operate correctly.  I even tore the motor apart, cleaned out a mountain of carbon dust, and put it back together.

Then I put 12v power directly to the motor - it ran fine.  My lack of trust was well placed.  Really happy I didn't replace the pump.

So I think the culprit is the rear window motors, and more specifically whatever switch is in there that tells the car that the window is down.  Because the top won't operate until those windows are shown down.

Anyone have wisdom on Mustang rear windows?  The assembly seems really buried.

Hey, late to the party here. I replaced the top in my '05 with one from a 2012 back last year. If you've tested the motor working fine off direct 12v, then like you said it's probably some safety switch not showing the correct signal to allow the top to go back.

The wire in the middle of this pic goes to one of the little switches that tells if the top is up or down, there is one on both sides of the top.

Will the motor run if you try to open the top (even though it's open)?

Edit: Here is the wiring diagram for the top http://iihs.net/fsm/?d=40&f=Convertible%20Top.pdf

In reply to t25torx :

Late to the party, but you made it!

At this point when I hit the "top-up" button, all the windows will go down as expected.  Then nothing more happens.

The "top up" relay does click as expected, but power is not flowing thru to the motor.  For that matter, if I press the "top down" button then that relay will also click.  So it sort of seems like it's acting correctly.

But then I can also hear the rear window motors clicking, like they're trying to extend down.  I was just reading about resetting your window limit switches.  That could be a good fix, if the SJB thinks the rear windows aren't down yet.

I haven't messed with any convertible top switches yet, though that's definitely on the list.

Alright, this is getting stupid now.  Now the driver's side seat belt retractor doesn't want to extend.  Totally locked up.

Argh.

Well, now I know how to reset an ball-bearing lock thingy in a seat-belt retractor...

t25torx - THANK YOU!!!!!!

I was a dork in accidentally raising my top with a spray bottle stuck in the frame on the left side. I managed to lower the top and pull it out. My top worked fine afterward. Not for long . . .

I recently experienced intermittent operation - same symptoms as indicated above. Replaced the power fuse and swapped relays around - it worked fine for a time then quit again.

I will check the verify off switch on the left side - the bottle probably loosened it up. Your post will save me hundreds of bucks and days of delay.

I never did get my top to work correctly.  The dealership spent a bunch of my money pretending to fix it, and didn't really get it fixed either.  I mercilessly traded the car to them for my new Focus ST.

I would suggest trying FORSCAN, and see if the "window up" and "window down" signals show up in the diagnostics there.  I read about FORSCAN after I got rid of my GT, but that might offer a valuable diagnostic tool.

Check the convertible top well for any objects in it. There is a top down confirmation switch (THANKS t25TORX) that isn't being allowed to work because of that. Intermittent operation results from that object shifting around back there.

Be sure to check for any kids or adult toys that may have gotten stuffed back there because objects do become airborne at high speeds with the top down.

In my case it was a black leather glove that got blown back in there from the slipstream. It was very hard to see. Also check the framewells.

In reply to USERNAMETAKEN :

Did you figure out your convertible top issue where the top wouldn't move? I have the same issue, top will not go up or down but the motor is good and the relays and fuses are good.  The switch will lower the windows but then nothing? please help.

Thanks,

Todd

I never did figure that one out, and I got rid of the car.

My suspicion was that the window sensing wasn't working right.  If I were to do it today, I would try the FORSCAN tool, or find someone with a factory Ford scanner.

USERNAMETAKEN said:

In reply to smokindav :

Ugh.  They're always so spammy and full of pop-up ads.  And those who frequent them seem to be more full of attitude than advice.  I've tried but not had good success.

What I like about this site.  Rarely any attitude and good, thoughtful advice as well.  Much appreciated.  

In reply to t25torx :

This is the closest I have come to solving my problem, hopefully you can help. My rear window motor died (slow death over 2 years). Without it down, the top quit going down. Got a new motor, put it in and all works fine. But now the top still won't go down. When I press the top down button, all 4 windows go down and I hear the two back windows click...then nothing. The pump never even tries to run. The relays in the fuse box also do not click (checked relays and fuses, all good). It is like it does not know the windows are down, so it is not trying to engage the relays/pump. 

In reply to mvaughn25 :

That's basically what mine would do but going up rather than going down.

Did you scan the computer to see if some signal isn't getting connected?

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

Do I need a factory scanner to see that? I have an OBD2 scanner, but don't see any errors there. Not sure it will see electrical though.

I thought you mentioned that your relays were clicking?

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

I dug a little deeper and found the top ajar switch, but cannot see any screws or real way to remove it. But looking at the plug and wiring diagrams, there is a wire for up and one for down, with a common ground. Shouldn't I be able to jump the ground to either the up or down wire to fake the sensor signal? Just trying to rule out the sensor, especially since it is right next to the window I had to remove and replace the motor on.