Subaru Legacy/Outback Advice

Subaru novice am I. I'm pretty sure I'm going to attempt to push the wife into a Subaru Legacy or Outback instead of another Volvo V70/850.

Now I sorta understand that there are problems with the 2.5 engine, but it's not clear to me.

Is there a good thumbnail guide a person can use to know which engines to avoid, as well any other inherent Subaru weaknesses?

This is going to be a mommy car, so the WRX is out, but turbo's are in (she does love to go fast).

SWMBO has a 3.0 Outback Wagon. I've done the brakes (too easy) and this weekend I'm replacing the alternator, and maybe/probably the power steering pump, belt tensioner, belt and battery, so I will get back to you on that. Bay is fairly crowded but this is also a modern car for my ham-fists.

I don't know of any inherent design weaknesses or issues, although i do understand the components listed above can give some trouble, typically air in the steering pump due to O-ring decay in the hose connections, which is likely what I wil be replacing due to the gurgling noises. This one has 145K and runs great though, so this seems fairly reasonable to anticipate maintenance wise.

Whenever I do a google search for information I usually end up searching through one of the Subaru forums which seem pretty well traveled.

This one is also the LL Bean edition, leather, heated seats, heated mirrors, 6 disc in dash cd changer, fairly well optioned really all things considered.

What era of 2.5 are you looking at?

97-99 DOHC - Internal HG leaks - BAD! But most fixed or blown up by now.

2000-04 SOHC - External HG leaks - not a huge deal

2005-present SOHC - better

I have a 2001 Outback 3.0 VDC McIntosh and it's a stone motherberkleyer to do plugs in, and gets space shuttle fuel mileage.

NGTD wrote: What era of 2.5 are you looking at? 97-99 DOHC - Internal HG leaks - BAD! But most fixed or blown up by now. 2000-04 SOHC - Exrenal HG leaks - not a huge deal 2005-present SOHC - better

Dunno, but you've guided me a bit right there.

So if I were to find a wonderful deal on a 99, is there a visual cue to tell if the head gaskets have been done? If they have, does the fix hold, or can one figure on another head gasket job in a few years.

The 00-04 with external leaks, is it just a slobbering of oil, or is it actual damage that I've got to fix?

Figure a '99 EJ25D has had the head gaskets done, I don't think many made it 100k miles. If fixed properly with good gaskets and new head bolts, the repair is good for six digit mileage.

External HG oil leaks on the EJ251 cars(maybe early 253, too?) are relatively minor, just smelly as hell. I've never seen block or head damage from one. If HGs have been done under warranty, it's with the turbo gaskets, which are MUCH more stout. No idea if the same is true for twin cam cars, but they stay fixed.

I replaced the head gaskets on my wife's 01 Legacy sedan due to an external oil leak. It started leaking around 100k miles and we just dealt with the smell (the oil leaks at the rear / bottom of each head and runs down the cross member until it drips on the exhaust) until around 120k miles. That's when I did the head gaskets, timing belt / tensioners and water pump. The hive mind here guided me through that job, which was done in-car.

I also replaced the drivers side front wheel bearing last winter - and I'm doing the passenger side this weekend.

These cars are easy to work on - the timing belt would have been EASY if I didn't have to do the head gaskets - for instance. But in my opinion these are odd jobs for a car with relatively low mileage. Head gaskets and wheel bearings before 120k miles? And I admit I procrastinated until I really had to do the work.

Edit - as they said above, the 05+ have improvements to both of these issues.

Edit2 - and, my wife loves the car. It rides smooth and you can't get it stuck in the snow.

We have an '03 Subaru Legacy Wagon, 5 speed and I bought it with 255,000km's on it. Runs like a top and I've autocrossed it about 3-4 times. I can smell coolant occasionally and I have a small leak from the rear main seal but it just keeps going. I keep thinking I'd like a WRX but may just get a rear-sway bar (whiteline) and run again next year. Tons of room inside, runs smooth and has enough pep to keep me in/out of trouble. I still want a WRX but this may become a project Frankenstein wagon at some point. We also have an '04 Subaru Forester XT that is even more fun but it's an auto and I'm not allowed to race it, due to my history with the family car. (SEE my post about my Grassroots Motorsport shirt being cursed).

Here's a vid from the summer at the oval we use for autocross:

In reply to rustysteel:

http://youtu.be/CnowAzHvYcU

FYI - stay away from the '00 Legacy Outback due to a transmission issue. They don't always go into gear right away. It was fixed in '01+

fornetti14 wrote: FYI - stay away from the '00 Legacy Outback due to a transmission issue. They don't always go into gear right away. It was fixed in '01+

Really? I'm not doubting, just haven't heard that. Details?

foxtrapper wrote:

NGTD wrote: What era of 2.5 are you looking at? 97-99 DOHC - Internal HG leaks - BAD! But most fixed or blown up by now. 2000-04 SOHC - Exrenal HG leaks - not a huge deal 2005-present SOHC - better

Dunno, but you've guided me a bit right there. So if I were to find a wonderful deal on a 99, is there a visual cue to tell if the head gaskets have been done? If they have, does the fix hold, or can one figure on another head gasket job in a few years. The 00-04 with external leaks, is it just a slobbering of oil, or is it actual damage that I've got to fix?

As others have said - chances are the 99 has had the HG's done.

I had a 97 Outback and when I sold it it had 412K kms (over 250k miles) on it and it is still going. I see it around the city sometimes.

Good stuff in this thread so far. If you find an outback with the 2.5 turbo or a Legacy GT you'll enjoy the engine. Both were available with a manual if mommy is into that, though they aren't very common.

I've got 115k on my '05 Legacy GT wagon and have had it for three years and 45k of those miles. No major repairs since I've owned it. I looked at 3 series BMW's this fall thinking I might want another one, but every time I drove one I got back in my Legacy and liked it better. Good seats, nice steering, overall nice car. So, it's staying in the stable for at least a few more years.

PeterAK wrote: '05 Legacy GT wagon

Tell me it's a manual. Just one of those great cars I wish had sold more so I could get one used.

EDIT: checked your profile. Yup, I hate you.

My wife has a 2012 Outback 6 speed manual 2.5L. It has 20K miles on it and we have had no problems with it. Average Fuel Economy over that time period is 26mpg (Get about 30 highway). The increase in interior volume over the previous generations is quite noticeable. It's not actually that much larger than the previous generation however when parked next to each other it seems ginormous. Ours is a low spec package basically the bottom of the barrel with heated seats and alloy wheels. I really like that it can tow 2700lbs and swallow 10' pieces of lumber. It's a good honest car.

foxman, here is all you need to know about Subaru head gaskets: Phase 1 and Phase 2 engines

Head gasket replacement, if done correctly with the most modern version of the gaskets should last the life of the car. When this problem first surfaced, it was not uncommon to see them fail again with the factory gaskets. The design has been upgraded for quite some time. Had the ones in our Forester done when we got it and had no problems since. I had a Suba-guru do ours, not some corner garage that had never done one, so my success was pretty much assured.

Personally, I'd get the better looking Legacy GT wagon if I could find one.

ValuePack wrote:

PeterAK wrote: '05 Legacy GT wagon

Tell me it's a manual. Just one of those great cars I wish had sold more so I could get one used. EDIT: checked your profile. Yup, I hate you.

Took me six months to find one and lucked into it being in town and in good shape. Had to have the manual wagon combo!

nocones wrote: My wife has a 2012 Outback 6 speed manual 2.5L. It has 20K miles on it and we have had no problems with it. Average Fuel Economy over that time period is 26mpg (Get about 30 highway). The increase in interior volume over the previous generations is quite noticeable. It's not actually that much larger than the previous generation however when parked next to each other it seems ginormous. Ours is a low spec package basically the bottom of the barrel with heated seats and alloy wheels. I really like that it can tow 2700lbs and swallow 10' pieces of lumber. It's a good honest car.

My wife's car is a 2011 Outback with CVT. We've got 15k miles and it's been perfect. Similar MPG as nocones wife gets with the manual, though I think the CVT's are supposed to be a bit better than the manuals. Parked next to my LGT it looks huge, and the interior has tons more space. In my car I can't sit in the front seat with a rear facing car seat behind me without knawing on my kneecap, but in the Outback it's totally comfy. Great family car, though not exciting to drive. We've used it to tow an 18' runabout and it's been ok for that.

We just bought a 2013 Legacy 2.5 for the wife and she really seems to like it so far. Only have a couple thousand miles on it so far.

One of the reasons we bought it was because my brother has a 9? Impresa that he bought used with 50K miles on it that now has 270K miles on it with no problems. His daughter has an Outback that she bought with 30K on it that now is at the 160K mark with no problems also.

Since they bought used it is possible that any problems might have been fixed before they bought. But with the mileage they have gotten in spite of their poor maintenance habits, I would say Subarus are reliable.

In reply to Hal:

Well, I'll be damned... I didn't know you could still get an Outback with a manual transmission...

If you want a turbo Outback, you're looking at 2005-09 model years. They WERE available with a manual transmission, although they're pretty rare.

The motors are solid, but there were issues with turbo failure on the 2005-06 models -- there was a filter in the oil supply line that could clog, leading to bearing failure on the turbo. Most surviving cars have probably had that filter removed and/or the turbo replaced.

The five-speed automatic transmission from that generation is pretty nice -- better than older four-speed Subaru autos.

I had a Legacy GT wagon of this vintage (same car as the Outback, just not raised up), and I loved it. Smooth, quiet, fast, and useful.

These things are so rare apparently people think they are priceless. Or they just don't include a price on CL.

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/3473922636.html

In reply to PeterAK:

Your generation of GT in general seems to pull people in from all over. My father recently put up a simple ad on Craigslist NH for his '08 GT sedan, and has had calls from as far away as AZ thus far. Then a tree fell on it in Sandy, but that's besides the point.

And I still hate you.