suggest to me a grassroots rallycross car

what about a Celica All-Trac? It did see serious rally use back in its day

OR if you want to go weird... an All-Trac Corolla wagon built for rally.....?????

Gravel is the great equalizer. When hunting for grip, the best whatever really dosen't matter nearly as much as the lugnut behind the wheel. I could best a few AWD cars with the Neon. And there was a bone stock Elantra that was often in the top 5 for the day.

Get what tickles your fancy.

Jeff wrote: Gravel is the great equalizer. When hunting for grip, the best whatever really dosen't matter nearly as much as the lugnut behind the wheel. I could best a few AWD cars with the Neon. And there was a bone stock Elantra that was often in the top 5 for the day. Get what tickles your fancy.

I disagree. You are right that the talent makes the difference, but if wanting to compete at the pointy end, THEN this becomes an issue.

Doesn't everyone aspire to be the best? I know I sure do, so I'll take the best equipment I can (which is limited by my finances) into battle.

I posted this in off-topic, then realized it was very germane to this discussion.

They flog a Volvo 240 to death and don't even break any windows when they roll it.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/turbo-brick/40218/page1/

Oh, one other thing:

I'd avoid any "special" cars like the All-Trac Celicas and (my own personal mistake) the BMW 325IX.

If something breaks (and it will) the parts are more expensive. I can buy a whole control arm with new ball joints for my Golf for the price one ball joint cost to buy and have the machine shop press into a used control arm for the BMW.

I'm not sure what the parts are like on the Celica up there, but even if they are cheap you have to consider how available they are, too.

Parts aren't awful, and most are still available, but i wouldn't bother with one either. They are incredibly strong, but finding a good one won't be real easy, and i wouldn't want to rallycross something that expensive anyways.

Now if it were stage rally? Yeah, i'd give it another look. Good way to get close to newer subie performance for much cheaper.

good suggestions, keep them coming.

alot depends on what I can find for GRM challenge-type money on my local craigslist. Sadly I'm not in Atlanta, I'm in DC, where everyone thinks their POS old car is worth twice what it really is.

older e30s are easy to find cheap around here, but rarely the S models with LSD. older subies are easy to find cheap as well, but mostly legacys. most older VW's I've seen are riced out or beat by the hell-flush fanbois. That and based on 2 past VWs I hate VWs with a passion and will never ever ever own one unless it's a MkI GTI.

Still thinking on the Isuzu Stylus (sooo light, high-revving engine, but hard as hell to get parts and mods for)

Like the Volvo 200-series (my parents had 240/260 wagons when I was a kid) but wife would kill me

Like late-90s subies, but imprezas in decent shape are hard to find cheap locally. (and I have subie knowlege since I have a newer WRX)

Mazda 626 is an interesting thought...will have to look.

Celica alltrac would be sick, but no chance I'll find one in my price range

MR2 has crossed the mind..... RX7s have crossed my mind many times except for my (unjustified?) fear of rotary engines.

1st gen altima VERY much piques my interest. My parents had one when they were new and I always liked borrowing it (I had an 87 integra at the time)....quick for a 4banger, good handling stock, feels like a "small" car..hmm.

I vote SAAB- I would encourage a 900 or 99. You can have a robust, sturdy car with very little work. You can find them for $500 all day long, which leaves you a healthy budget to make improvements.

Hotlinked for your pleasure:

HStockSolo wrote: I'd be worried about rear suspension on a Saturn. There are a lot of weak stamped pieces back there. The rear longitudinal arms are long and thin u sections. Replace those with some tubular arms and beef up the sway bar brackets and you'd probably be okay. Saturns also don't have a lot of ground clearance, but they can fit taller tires.

On shorter than stock tires (wheee):

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/5552805476_0526d53aa1_o.jpg

Ehh. They are plenty tough. And a piece of cake to reinforce if you deemed it necessary. And cheaper than almost anything else on the list. But really an Escort, Civic, Neon, Integra, CRX, Corolla etc. would all work just as well. Problem is getting a Honda you want to keep for under $2K

Altima is way bigger than the above cars.

irish44j wrote: RX7s have crossed my mind many times except for my (unjustified?) fear of rotary engines.

I know nothing about rotary engines either. But my RallyX RX-7 has not given me any rotary issues. It has surprised many people with how long it has lasted out there so far. Come out to the next event and see how much fun the RX-7 looks like out there.

moxnix wrote:

irish44j wrote: RX7s have crossed my mind many times except for my (unjustified?) fear of rotary engines.

I know nothing about rotary engines either. But my RallyX RX-7 has not given me any rotary issues. It has surprised many people with how long it has lasted out there so far. Come out to the next event and see how much fun the RX-7 looks like out there.

I assume you mean Summit? tempting.

I actually know a guy who used to race spec RX7s (enduro)...now he does Rolex Porsches, lol. He once mentioned that he had a 1st gen RX7, caged, if I wanted it. I may have to see if that offer is still good, since free is always best!

In reply to Mezzanine:

trust me, I was just re-looking at the GRM issues where they rallied the Saab, and admiring it. IDK why I'm scared of Saabs.....but if it looks like the one you posted the pic of, I could get over it fast :)

E30s of the non-s variety are fine for rallycross. Torque is good and you can always swap in a LSD diff later or weld the stock unit.

The Legacy is a good rallycross car too, not quite as nimble as the Impreza but basically all the same hop-up parts and techniques apply.

The Altima pictured was our clubs rental car. It took a LOT of abuse (sit outside for months at a time then get flogged by six people non stop for 6 hours and repeat for three or four years) before the transmission gave up. The 2.4 has good torque and the automatic transmission is not a penalty in rallycross unless you think it is.

HiTempguy wrote:

Jeff wrote: Gravel is the great equalizer. When hunting for grip, the best whatever really dosen't matter nearly as much as the lugnut behind the wheel. I could best a few AWD cars with the Neon. And there was a bone stock Elantra that was often in the top 5 for the day. Get what tickles your fancy.

I disagree. You are right that the talent makes the difference, but if wanting to compete at the pointy end, THEN this becomes an issue. Doesn't everyone aspire to be the best? I know I sure do, so I'll take the best equipment I can (which is limited by my finances) into battle.

Yes, it's awfully hard to drive a 75 bhp crap can and beat a WRC car.

But the difference is less on gravel. If I can put all 75 hp to the ground without spinning, but the 150 hp car can only get 40% to the ground because they've picked the wrong line, put to much power down at once, or the track is different 2 minutes later than I went through, they are going to be slower at that point.

And yes if you have equal drivers, the one in the better car will usually be faster. But again, if the grip is gone for whatever reason when they run, they won't be.

cghstang wrote: I personally would stay away from old AWD cars. Stuff will eventually break and it probably won't be easy or cheap to fix. Late 90's naturally aspirated Subarus can be the exception.

Exactly. Now matter what you do, don't get a weird car you can't get parts for (All-trac, old 325ix, etc). If you can't find it, you will break it.

Following that thought, I'm leaning towards RWD for my next dedicated RallyCross machine.

The sickness spreads!

Grizzly wrote: + DO IT

Funny thing, i have a friend doing exactly this. It's FWD/5spd and stock t3 for now, but the he351 is already bought and the AWD is almost bolt-in.. theres one in a local junkyard right now.

I already have the AWD parts for my caravan.

Oh and considering the OP, im surprised noone has said maxima yet. Under $2k all day long if you're not picky, and for a rallycross car, you shouldnt be.

Ok don't laugh, but a 1984-89 300zx seems to work pretty good. Our 1986 n/a 300zx has come in 1st and 2nd in each SCCA rallycross it has run. It runs in the stock/rear division. As of now I have a grand total of $700 in the car after new struts and brakes. They basically give these cars away, you can buy them all day long for $500, and new parts are stupid cheap. I just ordered 4 new struts, front and rear brake pads, balljoints, and sway bar bushings for $140 shipped from Rockauto.

.

Here's a video, look for the ZX at 1:12 and 1:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJUebtACJU&feature=share

....And they even have a factory rally heritage--

The 300Z might not be a huge pig if you stripped it down, either.

Vigo wrote: Oh and considering the OP, im surprised noone has said maxima yet. Under $2k all day long if you're not picky, and for a rallycross car, you shouldnt be.

I thought about it for a second. But any maxima I get would be a major downgrade to my EP 5th gen and I don't know if I could handle that, lol.

Plus I'd have to get a 3rd gen, because I'm not doing a beam axle 4th or 5th for rallycross.

IDK...

Crown vic! Cheap, plentiful, tough. RWD, easy to get LSD and good gears ...A big large though and automatic...The latter can be fixed easily.

irish44j wrote: I assume you mean Summit? tempting. I actually know a guy who used to race spec RX7s (enduro)...now he does Rolex Porsches, lol. He once mentioned that he had a 1st gen RX7, caged, if I wanted it. I may have to see if that offer is still good, since free is always best!

Yeah we should be at the rest of the rallyx events at summit this year with the RX-7. If you have not been out there before you should come out and talk with people about what they run and why.

free is why I am running a second gen RX-7.

Brett_Murphy wrote: The 300Z might not be a huge pig if you stripped it down, either.

Since that puts you in Modified, you can go ahead and scrape out the rear suspension and put in a solid axle so you can actually put power down.

I'll second some of cghstangs comments - that Altima was amazing for the abuse it put up with.

I run a Legacy wagon, with a 2.2. Its not as nimble as the imprezas from the same era, but it does alright, and it can carry all the required (and not so required) stuff to the rallycross, and haul it home.

Oh, and I have beat some WRXs with it, though mainly on momentum courses. Once you hit a course with tons of tight turns and long stretches for acceleration the lack of horsepower catches up with me.

In reply to Knurled:

Depends where you run. Around here, you'd just be in 2WD over 2.3 litres.