Suspension question for NA Miata

Hi Guys, I snagged a nice deal on a high mileage '92 Miata with a hardtop for $1500! The goals for this car are to keep it cheap and have a fun weekend driver and occasionally autoX and I'd like to also give rallyX a try. I've got new brake pads on it and am most of the way through a complete fluid flush.

I'm looking to you guys for advice on suspension. I'm leaning toward keeping the stock springs to keep me in a "stock" autoX class. I'm looking for the best performance oriented replacement shocks. Reviews on miata.net are all over the place, but who knows if those guys just want a cushy ride to work every day. I'm leaning toward some Bilstein HD and aftermarket bumpstops but would like to hear any opinions from you experienced Miata folk. Thanks!

Aftermarket bumpstops will take you out of SCCA Stock, at least the last time I looked at the rules (a couple years ago).

Which shocks you go with should be based on just how hard-core you're going to be about this auto-x thing. The tried-and-true street+autox combo used to be Koni yellows, but if you're a high-caliber driver, you might proceed to something fancier (Koni Reds, Fat Cat customs, etc).

Don't forget that Stock class is regionally/nationally a R-compound class. Your local group might have a street-tire version, but if you don't plan to buy Hoosiers, you might think about one of the Street classes, which allow for more suspension mods....

I never did RallyX, but I can't help but think that a good Stock-class AutoX suspension/shock would be a terrible RallyX shock.

Check out "sts" class, see if there are guys in your region running there, and if you like the mods allowed. Estock has some 1.8's, and they are tough to keep up with.

I just installed a fm full suspension. I think worth it on customer service alone.

I think the reason you see such varied reviews is because how the car responds to everything.

I installed the full fm suspension and waited for the magic on my first drive. I was dissapointed; it felt like driving a car with working shocks which previously had blown shocks. However, with sticky tires and a real allignment, the magic came to life.

The car needs more than just good parts, it needs to be set up well.

I think its not worth the class bump alone for stiffer f+r sway bars, leave the rear stock.

After one summer autocrossing and dd'ing with good shocks and sticky tires, I have murdered my stock rubber bushings which were in decent shape last year, so not a bad "while I'm in there"

So to summarize from my na lessons learned: buy quality, but spend time and money on setup. The little details matter. A "close enough" alignment will mask your cars potential.

My rallycross/dd suspension setup is a set of used Mazdaspeed Miata bilsteins and springs with aftermarket bumpstops. It does leave something to be desired at rallycross but is decent. It is also fine for commuting on the rough roads around here.

First off, you STOLE that at $1500. The hard top and wheels alone are worth pretty close to that, or maybe more to the right buyer. I went the Koni Sport route and have been pretty happy with them. Unless you're planning to put more than you paid for the car into shocks alone, it seems to be the best option if you are staying in stock class. If you might move up to STS, the "budget" option seems to be the V-Maxx from Flyin Miata. If you are looking to autocross it, I would angle towards STS. In all likelihood, a rule change next year will make the second gen Miatas (NB's) eligible for the E-Street class (which will replace E-Stock if I've got all this right). The later 1.8's will have trouble competing even locally from what I've seen, so 1.6's are probably going to be pretty much outclassed. The good news is STS Miatas can be pretty fast. We've even had them turn FTD on "Miata friendly" courses. No idea what setup you'd need for rally, but there are a few on here that might.

Thanks for the input guys. I'l add that I'm not looking to be ultra competitive in either venue (autoX or rallyX). I just want to flog the car! Whatever shock setup I choose will certainly be a compromise of performance on pavement/performance on dirt/and cost. I've read some good and some bad reviews of the KYB AGX, but their price point is good and the adjustability could be a greatbenefit for the car's triple duty purposes.

I've also read about some $5 civic bumpstops (part #51722-SR0-003) that work well and can be trimmed to your ideal length. This seems like a nice money saving trick.

kazoospec wrote: First off, you STOLE that at $1500. The hard top and wheels alone are worth pretty close to that, or maybe more to the right buyer.

I know! The ad was for a '95 for $2k. I went to the car lot and found a misrepresented '92. I was a little disappointed, but knowing the value of the hardtop and wheels, I decided to offer the guy $1500 anyway. He took it. Its 170k miles and the paint is faded in spots, but it was a great deal!

Theres a chance it might be at the $2013 challenge!

Lof8 wrote: Thanks for the input guys. I'l add that I'm not looking to be ultra competitive in either venue (autoX or rallyX). I just want to flog the car! Whatever shock setup I choose will certainly be a compromise of performance on pavement/performance on dirt/and cost. I've read some good and some bad reviews of the KYB AGX, but their price point is good and the adjustability could be a greatbenefit for the car's triple duty purposes. I've also read about some $5 civic bumpstops (part #51722-SR0-003) that work well and can be trimmed to your ideal length. This seems like a nice money saving trick.

The general m.net "hive wisdom" seems to be the Koni Yellows are better than AGX's and for only marginally more $ (they even go on sale once in a while). The Koni's are rebuildable, the AGX aren't. I'm also not 100% sure the AGX retain the stock spring perch height. The Koni's also have three selectable spring heights, stock, R package height and lowered if you decide to swap out springs later. Whatever you do, don't drop a Miata without adding stiffer springs. There isn't much suspension travel to begin with, especially in the rear.

EDIT: Re: $2013 challenge: sell top, sell wheels. Car cost = $0.00. Not a bad starting point.

One thing to keep in mind if you are thinking about rallyx.

Stock class for rallyx required non adjustable shocks. Putting on adjustable shocks will move you to PR for rallyx.

With that in mind for autox/rallyx stock go for the Bilstein's.

For autox stock and don't care about rallyx classing go for koni sports. If you are thinking about STS in the future see if you can afford the koni race at least for the front end.

Lof8 wrote: Thanks for the input guys. I'l add that I'm not looking to be ultra competitive in either venue (autoX or rallyX). I just want to flog the car! Whatever shock setup I choose will certainly be a compromise of performance on pavement/performance on dirt/and cost. I've read some good and some bad reviews of the KYB AGX, but their price point is good and the adjustability could be a greatbenefit for the car's triple duty purposes. I've also read about some $5 civic bumpstops (part #51722-SR0-003) that work well and can be trimmed to your ideal length. This seems like a nice money saving trick.

Currently having adjustable shocks (tokico illuminas) I have decided there is no need for adjustables (at least for an na)

The rears are set one click away from softest setting, fronts one firmer than rear. (FM recommendation)

Going any stiffer results in bumps hitting you harder and sliding around loosing time on an autox course. I have never run on a glass smooth course, and imagine they don't exist, so the stiff settings are useless. (And I have run at some nice airports)

Going softer, again makes the car slower on the autox course consistently, and I can't feel the difference on the road, so I don't adjust before or after events as softer provides me no notable comfort benefit.

Every adjustment from the recommended settings provides worse handling. Which leads me to the thought of why not just make the shocks in just that one valving setting, because everything else is worse.

I had one experience with kyb shocks in my c4 corvette, and that was disappointment. Perhaps they were higher quality and would last longer than stock, but the damping was not improved enough over stock (or at all?) to justify the cost over stock in my mind.

Bump stops are important. With my blown shocks I used to hit the stock rear stops alot; I spun out going through an off ramp because I was riding the bump-stop and hit a concrete transition. Bad bumpstops take away predictability on poor surfaces.

And classing isn't everything; I get murdered by a good driver in e-stock with street tires in his 1.8 na when he shows up, but I sometimes beat a modern mini with slicks in sts.

The adjustability isn't important, the correct damping is. If you can get Tokico to make the shocks in a fixed setting that is matched to our springs, go for it. I agree that the Illuminas work best with our springs in one position. But to get that position, you need the adjustable shocks.

I'd definitely want to know more about the rules before giving a suspension suggestion for this car.

I'm mostly concerned with a good triple duty performing shock (with stock springs) at a reasonable price. Classification is not a big concern as I don't anticipate competing for the top spot. I just wanna go fast and have fun!

Bilstein HD!

Well, the decision was made for me. I met up with a guy selling a set of used wheels/tires and in his shed, he had some adjustable Koni yellows with NB top hats. Grabbed them for $200. Another sweet score!

Lof8 wrote: Well, the decision was made for me. I met up with a guy selling a set of used wheels/tires and in his shed, he had some adjustable Koni yellows with NB top hats. Grabbed them for $200. Another sweet score!

You're on a roll! That's another steal. Perhaps you should "invest" in some lotto tickets.

The guy I bought the wheels and konis from suggested strongly against stock springs for rallyX. He thinks ill be bottoming out a lot and may be "jacking down" as well. Any thoughts on this?

What would be a good compromise spring for autoX and rallyX?

If you crank up the rebound on those Konis, they will jack down. If you leave them at the softest setting, you'll probably be okay.

Lof8 wrote: What would be a good compromise spring for autoX and rallyX?

MSM springs or 'Hard S' springs

I'm looking at the Flyin Miata springs. With these NB Konis that I grabbed, should I be looking at NA or NB FM springs?

NB, no question. I'd also recommend NB upper mounts to go with them.