Takata Airbag Recall - 30M More Cars?

The never-ending story. . .   The title of the linked article is is a bit attention-getting as they have not actually tested to determine if they will actually recall these vehicles. Stay tuned is really what it should say?  I did not know that there was also a desiccant issue on top of the metal fragments problem.

Link to story>> https://www.yahoo.com/autos/30-million-more-vehicles-being-130200066.html

Wow. One of ours fell under the recall. The dealer sent a technician who did the airbag swap in our driveway. 

The passenger bag in my 04 Mitsubishi was replaced twice under the recall. A new bag was installed, and then that bag was replaced under recall.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

The passenger bag in my 04 Mitsubishi was replaced twice under the recall. A new bag was installed, and then that bag was replaced under recall.

Same for the 02 Civic that has been in the family since new, it has had airbags replaced twice too. 

How is that company not bankrupt?

aircooled said:

How is that company not bankrupt?

Apparently they were...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takata_Corporation#Bankruptcy

I wasn't a big fan of airbags to begin with, and now that they're all basically claymores, I'm glad I mostly drive 80s stuff.

Whose idea was it to use pyrotechnics in front of your face?

In reply to Cactus :

IIRC the first airbags were in some '74 GMs.

They were sold to the regulatory peeps as a primary restraint because people were mostly too lazy to wear seatbelts.  That is why the pre 1990 bags were killing children and shorter adults.

In Takata's defense, it used to be standard that airbags had to be replaced after ten years.  One has to engineer to a spec, and if that was the spec...

Glad my '76 CVCC doesn't have one.

In reply to aw614 :

One of my airbags was replaced twice, too--first an "interim" airbag and then the final one. I had the first job done at the dealership. Benefits of going to the BMW dealership: free Klondike Bars and car washes. 

My only complaint about airbags is they make for some ugly steering wheels. 

From elegant.

To this hideous thing. 

For me, my daily drivers are around 10 years old. 

The toys and trucks are minimum of 20. Those airbags were disconnected. Im not sure how comfortable i am with a 23+ year ild explosive device made by the lowest bidder i am staring me in tne face. Ive also never seen new replacements for them. 

Toyman01 + Sized and said:

My only complaint about airbags is they make for some ugly steering wheels. 

 

Plus a gajillion. Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 with airbags that are actually nice looking - and let's be clear here, we're not saying they look like that first Porsche wheel you posted, or one from an Alfa Montreal; I'm just saying they're not outright ugly, bland, or silly looking - in recent cars, and none of them are all that recent: 

The NB Miata Nardi wheels

The somewhat similar looking Toyota wheels of the early 00's

And, though it is out of reach and the airbag spot is slightly too large, the Z8: 

I'm curious to see if my Acura will be included in this. I'm honestly not worried - they recalled 67 million, and to my knowledge there have been less than 500 injuries and less than 20 deaths. (My knowledge could be wrong).

The other thing I'm wondering... what is the competition like in this field? How many other makers of airbags are there, and what market share do each of them have? I have other thoughts on this, but they're not complete due to my not knowing that answer. 

I have a bias so I will disclose that first. I worked for Takata. I didn't make inflators, I made assembly equipment and was based in an assembly plant. So there is that.

Yes some people have been killed and that is awful. I don't condone anything where a company knows they have a defective product and let's it happen anyway. 

But the airbag bashing has always been a thing, just like the people that say seat belts kill people because they can't escape after a crash because they are stuck in the car. All of the pushback is anecdotal. The same thing goes for most automotive safety improvements. from padded dashes, to seatbelts, to collapsible steering columns, to crush zones, the list goes on and on. The list is similar for race cars, HANS devices, halo's, crash bar improvements, crush zones on NASCAR modified's (Richie Evans). Think of the rate of race drivers that were dying 20-30 years ago versus now (Earnhardt, Petty, Senna, Evans, on and on vs. Grojean, Verstappen, Ryan Newman and a host of other violent accidents we have seen in recent years that drivers walked away). 

The NHTSA publishes that Airbags have saved over 50K lives since 1987. Isn't that an overall risk reduction? Isn't that good? I have seen hundreds of airbags tested and it is a violent event that I hope to never see first hand, so is a collision hard enough to set one off. 

Yep the steering wheels are ugly, yes at least 28 people have died and over 400 injured from Takata bags but if you believe in statistics you are way better off having one than not having one. 

Last thought on the topic, where does the liability end for the manufacturer? I don't have that answer but in 2085 when there are 100 year old cars rolling around with an airbag that hasn't been touched in a century do we expect that to function correctly? With planes there is a prescribed maintenance regimen that is checked and followed car inspection (when they exist) are pretty lax by comparison. 

In reply to New York Nick :

Thanks for posting that!!!  I was going to say something similar but you did it way better.

In reply to dean1484 :

Thank you. I try not to post something like that without some facts. That's why I put the links. Here is something that is way less fact based but left a major impression on me. 
 

I used to hang out at a local heavy wrecker company. They have several photo albums of interesting recoveries. The things you would see in the photos of old wrecks was gruesome. Many of the wrecks we're littered with beer cans, there would be face prints in the windshield on the passenger side, mangled (formerly pretty) steering wheels that had obviously harpooned the driver. It gave me a pretty strong appreciation for the safety features that have been added over the years. That includes behavioral improvements in drinking and driving and seat belt use. 
 

Edit: and the hair. All the windshields would have the hair from the unlucky soul that smashed it stuck to the broken safety glass. 
my thought is the airbags would have kept those people off the windshield and steering wheel. 

mtn said:

Plus a gajillion. Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 with airbags that are actually nice looking - and let's be clear here, we're not saying they look like that first Porsche wheel you posted, or one from an Alfa Montreal; I'm just saying they're not outright ugly, bland, or silly looking - in recent cars, and none of them are all that recent:

Enh, there are a lot more than that.  Most 90s airbags were big and flat and really ugly, yes, but somewhere aroud Y2K they figured out how to make airbags smaller and it dramatically opened up the styling possibilities.  Lots of cars had that triangular style like the Miata and Toyota ones you list (both my B5 and B6 S4 had that style of wheel).  The "small button in the center" approach has been more popular lately and has yielded some good-looking steering wheels too (newer Audis have this, like my C7 S6 and the current R8s).

As for the classic Porsche one at the top... Frankly I don't like it at all.  Maybe I'm too young (and I'll be 50 next year, so I don't hear that often any more!) but it just looks old and dated to me.  The rim is overly thin and it's too large in diameter.

As for the Takata recall -- they need a better way to say "Yes I own the car, but you need to take it off the list because I've dealt with the problem in another way".  My M3 race car is on that list and they WILL NOT SHUT UP about the recall.  That car has a cage, an aftermarket wheel, aftermarket steering column, and all the airbags were removed years ago.  If they keep calling then one of these days I'm going to make an appointment at the BMW dealer and show up with my trailer... :)

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

mtn said:

Plus a gajillion. Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 with airbags that are actually nice looking - and let's be clear here, we're not saying they look like that first Porsche wheel you posted, or one from an Alfa Montreal; I'm just saying they're not outright ugly, bland, or silly looking - in recent cars, and none of them are all that recent:

Enh, there are a lot more than that.  Most 90s airbags were big and flat and really ugly, yes, but somewhere aroud Y2K they figured out how to make airbags smaller and it dramatically opened up the styling possibilities.  Lots of cars had that triangular style like the Miata and Toyota ones you list (both my B5 and B6 S4 had that style of wheel).  The "small button in the center" approach has been more popular lately and has yielded some good-looking steering wheels too (newer Audis have this, like my C7 S6 and the current R8s).

As for the classic Porsche one at the top... Frankly I don't like it at all.  Maybe I'm too young (and I'll be 50 next year, so I don't hear that often any more!) but it just looks old and dated to me.  The rim is overly thin and it's too large in diameter.

As for the Takata recall -- they need a better way to say "Yes I own the car, but you need to take it off the list because I've dealt with the problem in another way".  My M3 race car is on that list and they WILL NOT SHUT UP about the recall.  That car has a cage, an aftermarket wheel, aftermarket steering column, and all the airbags were removed years ago.  If they keep calling then one of these days I'm going to make an appointment at the BMW dealer and show up with my trailer... :)

 

Please do that and have a camera running! 

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

In the back of my mind, I can see you doing that, the technician laying the recall airbag in the driver's seat, the service manager clicking "Done" on some recall database, and you reaching in and handing the airbag back to the parts manager.

I refuse to take out airbags on street cars...now I am considering it for better safety