Talk me out of a Solo Vee

So I have this crazy idea of having a dedicated race car that I tow to events. Ideally, it would be something I could autocross localy, take to the occasional track night, and Hill Climb if I really felt like it. I have a 4 x 8 flat trailer with a 1200 pound rating, and a 3500 tow capacity. I care about fun, not taking FTD or setting lap records. I also don't want to drop $100k on a Radical, more like $5k all in.

A Solo Vee popped up locally and it seems like it would tick all the boxes. It's not a basket case or a project, it is almost ready to run. How crazy of an idea is this?

I shall not talk you out of it.  Sounds like good cheap fun.

How I started many moons ago.  Of course I had more than 1200 cc...   I say do it!

Dew it 

Can you run solo vees at tracknights?  I thought most organizations did not allow Open wheelers to run with closed wheel cars.  

But otherwise I have been thinking something similar.  It would be great to have something around 100hp, 1000lbs that has super low cost of ownership, tows easily, and is legal for multiple events.  It's basically a Spec Racer Ford but with more modern running gear.  

I've honestly thought about developing something that uses Fit/Versa/spark/mirage running gear.  Transverse MR, Strut rear, circle track parts front, center seat with ample spec cage.  Aero/aesthetics sort of like a BAC Mono. 

nocones said:

Can you run solo vees at tracknights?  I thought most organizations did not allow Open wheelers to run with closed wheel cars.  

I was thinking about that and wondering if the organizations would accept an open-wheel car with cycle wings ALA Caterham / 7 type car. Those are allowed at most (all?) tracknights and they are kind of open wheelers

I had a solo vee once upon a time. It was a lot of fun except it wouldn't get enough heat into the used Formula Ford 2000 tires I was using. I found that some Yokohama 001Rs worked far better ( I said it was once upon a time).

Downside was it would corner hard enough to cause oiling problems on one cylinder and I trashed multiple engines. They were all well used stockers that I could buy for $40-50 out of peoples' garages, so not a big deal and I could swap motors in 30 minutes..

"Track Night events are open to street vehicles, or equivalent. Purpose-built race cars or vehicles that are modified beyond what is acceptable for the street are not allowed."

I like the concept honestly, my main argument against the solo vee is that other things exist. Proper c mod cars are usually more expensive but things like f mods or karts can be just as cheap, have even less trailering requirements, and have 100% fewer old vw parts involved.

You mention that the solo V is almost ready to run.  

My main concern with a non-street legal, track car that may not run quite right...  

Are you then paying track day fees just to "sort out" the car?  A track day gives you 20 minute sessions but then you get out there for 2 laps to realize the car is misfiring at 3,500 rpm so you come in to address/wrench on that issue?  With a street legal vehicle, you could sort out that misfire on Weds night in the neighborhood and freeway and then get your full 20 minute session on the track.  

Hokay, so heres the consideration list. (from someone who owns an Fmod)

1. you say track night, you know one that has sessions for open wheelers?  most wont let them mix with tin tops (for good reasons, you dont wanna crash V2V with a big car)
2. Vees, I think got moved to CM for autocross? You will not be able to be competitive.  You will be able to have fun comparing to other classes and ignoring PAX
3. Hill climbs, have a think about hte crashability of a formula car in a hillclimb environment. ditches, boulders, and trees are not things that hitting will end well in an open wheeler.

Have you considered Fmod?  Autocross classing is more competitive, its faster as well. The con would be that it wouldnt do as well hillclimbing on bumpy roads.  $5k all in is a feasable budget for a used 2 stroke car.  motors are easier/cheaper to work on than Vee stuff as well. Plus, if you really wind up hating the 2smoke, you can cut the car up and convert to 600cc motorcycle power within the class, which also does away with the CVT.  more info here https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/learn-me-formula-500/127293/page1/

If you are comfortable with those considerations, I say go for it!  

John Welsh said:

You mention that the solo V is almost ready to run.  

My main concern with a non-street legal, track car that may not run quite right...  

Are you then paying track day fees just to "sort out" the car?  A track day gives you 20 minute sessions but then you get out there for 2 laps to realize the car is misfiring at 3,500 rpm so you come in to address/wrench on that issue?  With a street legal vehicle, you could sort out that misfire on Weds night in the neighborhood and freeway and then get your full 20 minute session on the track.  

I choose to test my neighbors tolerance a few times a year...  during the week when everyone is at work/school and its not a pandemic...   Autocrosses are also good for this, especially if you run with friends who you can switch to running their car if yours isnt working. 

Or, spend $1k for a Ford Focus then spend $2,000 more in suspension and rubber.  Then spend $700 on a tow dolly that your 3,500# minivan should be able to tow well enough.  That's then $3,700 all in leaving $1,300 of your $5,000 budget to address anything else the Focus needs.

I found that Focus while looking for a Ford Probe.  I like the Probes because they are a good chassis and they are usually always cheap.    

For what it's worth, my next autocross car is very likely to be either a kart or an older purpose built race car of some sort. After driving good karts I'm ruined in that way and owning purpose built race bikes has made me realize how much better it is to work on things that are meant to be worked on. 

So it sounds like the fact that the car is available close to you is extra appealing, is that right?

One thing that I would be concerned about is who you are running against.  If the goal is just to have fun, and not worry about competition, the car and class hardly matter.  If direct competition does matter, then some research to find who is running what class locally is an important thing.

I would also consider the cost of keeping the car alive over time is important, too.  Consumable matter.

The other thing I did consider is what also to do with the car- I even considered this for the Challenge, too.  If you can do vintage races with a SoloV, that would be pretty cool.  Or track days- can you find any that allow or have a lot of open wheel cars.  

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

There is a TON to be said for the ease of working on a purpose built racecar vs regular OEM stuff. 

My F500 weighs about 650lbs (without driver) and I have a stand for it that puts it at tabletop height. While there is some tight squeeze (my carbs are a PITA to get to), its much nicer in so many ways. Less than 5 minutes I have the whole body off the car and I can come at things from different angles. Most bolts are common types, so you can just order all new hardware from McMaster (or whereever). (side note, I kind of suggest hardware replacement as a regular every few seasons consideration, it makes it nice to work on). Its all very direct to get to and do.

Once you drive a car that makes you strive for faster mental processing speed in order to keep up, slower cars become boring. 2019 I was running my car on 7 year old tires that were hard as rocks. Should be very slow, right?  nope, top 5 times at autocross.  Once I get back out on new tires (its ready to go) I should be FTD no sweat.  (note, my local group is very competitive including a few former national champs in mod/prepared machinery)

Now, the old tires thing ties into a formula car consideration...  I wanted to fit wider front wheels so that I could be more autocross competitive. couldnt find the MFR of the rims I had, so went with Kaiser. they were a different center diameter and a slightly different offset and would hit the control arms limiting steering lock. I wound up having to find a local machine shop to make me adaptor rings so they can work...  this is the type f stuff that you run into a bit with race car life. 

I also run F-mod at autocross as well as using it for track events. Two stroke F-mod / F500 cars are the deal of the century. I'm into my car for 5K after 5 years of ownership. The acceleration is on par with 450hp production cars and lap times that most road cars could never dream of.

With that said the Solo Vee is close to you and the price is right, additionally because you do not car about being competitive this makes the project even more appealing

Track Days

I've done a track day where I was mixing it up with big road cars, I personally don't have an issue with it but as a former motorcycle racer I'm less risk adverse than most.

Many of events will not allow an open wheel car but will allow sports racers. Converting a car to a sports racer is not a huge task. If you look at something like a Lola T-492 S2000 car you'll see the have a fairly simple wedged shaped body.

Hill Climbs 

These events by their very nature are less safe than track events, regardless of what car you are in. It is possible to add more side impact protection to the Vee to a level that it would be near what a road car is (attenuators in quasi side pods) in a side impact. Obviously it will never be as safe as a bigger car.

Autocross

Because you don't car about classing, they'll be no other cars in your class, you're simply going to trying to get as far up the overall as possible..............so whatever class you land in won't matter.

In Closing

 I would buy the car, start with autocross, fabricate a sports racer body and go have fun with it.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Dumb question- what SR class would a V car fit into with a full body?

Looks like P2 in SCCA, ST3 in NASA.

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

Do you have dedicated indoor storage where to keep the Solo V? 

The main reason the Free Probe was free is because the seller was paying to keep the car in doors. As a rececar with no windows he had dropped down to keeping it out doors but there was really no way for him to secure the car or its items (unlockable.). The car also aged poorly when fully exposed.  All together, he just wanted the car gone.

You mention a flat bed trailer so there won't even be a covered trailer to store the Formula V inside? 

You're not me. So I'm going to try to think like I believe you would think. 
     Its's near you and affordable.  What will I find hard to live with if I buy it?  Well I know that The engines in those cars need real maintenance if they are pushed at racing speeds.  The engine can be quickly changed but that requires spare engines. One in the car, one spare and another work in progress. 
    The suspension adjustments are not all easy, fast wrench work.  Unlike cars designed as a pure race car ( Formula Ford for example ). 
  To keep it legal the parts must be right. It's not enough that they fit and work, they must conform to the rules. 
    A fellow racer got tired of pulling down the engines and looking for legal parts that weighed x and had certain markings on them. Quit and went Formula Ford racing because he was getting several seasons out of an engine. Then when the Kent engine began to be scarce and they switched to (Honda?) that solved that problem.  Now his grandchildren are getting their license using Grandpa's car.  

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

Totally dependent on the organization and event:

SCCA Majors would be either P1 or P2 dependent on 1600 or 1200 motor................it would get totally slaughtered as it would likely be 10-15 seconds a lap slower than a modern P2 car.

SCCA regionals while still in P1 or P2, these cars seldom run local events and so you'd be mixing it up with Formula Fords

Vintage, many clubs have classes for 70-90s sports racers so you'd run C or D-sports racer. You'd run in a wings and slick group, F2000s, S2000s early Formula Mazdas and F500 (me). The wide range of skill level at vintage events is such that you could get some decent results if you're a handy driver.

Track days obviously have no classing; you'd simply run in the advanced group. 

In reply to frenchyd :

There is something to be said watching classes that evolve vs stay stagnant with older tech.  That said, F500 can look bad if you are looking at participation numbers and that the drivetrian evolvements frequently require reengineering the back half of the chassis.

All else equal Formula Ford is likely the best (formula car) proposition for fields, number of places to run, and cars holding value over time. That said, they require 3-4x the investment of Vee or F500 to get into it.

Apexcarver said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

There is a TON to be said for the ease of working on a purpose built racecar vs regular OEM stuff. 

This can not be over-stated. I HATE working on my Miata (which is pretty dang easy to work on) now that I've been spoiled by my Exocet. "real" race cars make it soooo much easier to do things. 

In reply to frenchyd :

This particular car is not going to be constrained by the Formula Vee rules set.

I've run a FV; if you run the fan shroud the motors last a lot longer than the typical modern Vee. Vintage guys are getting multiple seasons out of engines.

The only hassle on FV is the constant adjusting of the brakes; again as this car is not constrained by the rules  you could convert it to drum brakes.

None of the track day organizers that I run with permit open wheeled cars, and even if they did I personally don't think it's a great idea from a safety standpoint.  I maintain this position because I share your lust for small/light/cheap formula cars and this is how I talk myself out of it.