Teach me about Mazdaspeed Miatas

More semi-idle speculation...

I'm still hoping that I'll be able to insure a Corvette C4/C5 for reasonable when I move to the US but I'm not too convinced I will be. As I'm on fairly strict orders to get something new-ish and reliable (I can only have one car initially due to our living situation) the thoughts turn towards Miatas. I think my wife is not too impressed that we tend to have to visit garages and all that while on road trips.

I don't think we ever got the Mazdaspeed Miatas over here in the UK. Admittedly I'm not that big a fan of the NB but I like the NC even less, so there. That said, they seem to be reasonably priced

Long story short, what are the panels thoughts on a Mazdaspeed Miata, plus potentially some money waved in the general direction of Keith's employer? Anything to watch out for apart from the usual like interfaces with hard, immovable objects, lack of maintenance and all that?

The car would have to play DD with the odd track even and potentially autocross - never tried the latter, but then our parking lots are on the small side in the UK.

Flyin' Miata will be your best friend :)

A friend has one, and he's gone whole-hog with the FM goodies (including the trick new suspension). His car has useable power everywhere, and is a true joy to drive.

Stock, they are somewhat underwhelming. The rev-limiter kicks in around 6500 rpm, which is lower than an NA Miata. Fortunately they still handle like a Miata.

I'd love one -- but it wouldn't stay stock. The FM upgrades are too good, and make such a difference. Plus FM service is top-notch. In 7 years of Miata ownership I've never, ever been let down by their sales or techincal support. I just wish I had more cash to give them.

Let's just say that I'd be factoring the FM 'little enchilada' into the purchase price of the car straight away. I have a hard time keeping Miatas stock so I'm with you on that.

The plan would look something like this:

• FM little enchilada (ie, intake, exhaust, intercooler and all that)
• Hard Dog rollbar
• Nice set of wheels, probably some that say 'Volk' and 'TE37'
• Slight suspension tweaks

And then I'll look into modifying it...

I say keep the Mazdaspeed wheels, Thay are RacingHarts after all. Pretty light too IIRC.

http://www.miata.net/faq/brochures/2004/2004_miz_brochure.pdf

I'd say buy a regular NB for cheaper, and then a Flyin Miata turbo kit.

That said, i lust after a Mazdaspeed Miata.

If you get one, and sell the wheels, DIBS.

I wouldn't even consider one, unless buying the FM kit to fix the boost problems. You said you are, but damn that's alot of change to drop on a car you just bought.

Flooring the gas pedal goes something like this.

oh this feels peppy enough, oh BOOOOOOSSTSTTTT!!

Lag is terrible, then the car rockets forward. Makes it very difficult to modulate power in the corners.

My dad had one for a while. Kept it stock except for the wheels. The RacingHarts bend VERY easily and it was cheaper for him to get a set of 16" wheels and tires for the replacement cost of his bent wheels. It was a fun car to drive too, but the rev limiter definitely kicks in too early. I've heard swapping a 5 spd. in helps out with driveability.

I bought one new and still have it. I am almost ashamed to say it on GRM, but it is completely stock.

Yes the rev limiter is too low, the gearing between the 6 speed and the final drive also conspire against you.

A good portion of the time I do not like the wheels. I think 17" wheels on a Miata look a bit silly.

Stock, the boost is too low and the tune is overly conservative. I think the factory programmed the ECU to just dump fuel to prevent a lean condition. I clean the soot of the tailpipe every once in a while. gas mileage is not very good for what it is. (I can get as low as 20-21 mpg if I try hard, I usually get around 22 mpg), it requires premium fuel as well. Comes with limited slip rear end.

That said it is the best new car I've ever had and if I didn't have two other cars that are semi projects I would spend my time and money modding this car. Get some of the FM stuff mentioned above and have a blast.

93celicaGT2 wrote: I'd say buy a regular NB for cheaper, and then a Flyin Miata turbo kit. That said, i lust after a Mazdaspeed Miata. If you get one, and sell the wheels, DIBS.

Actually if I wanted a project I'd get an NA and stick a supercharger on it instead. Trouble is that the car I'd have to buy in May can't be a project of that kind, so turbo or supercharger conversions are out. I can't really get away with doing much work on the car where my wife lives now but I can probably get away with playing with the intake and have an exhaust shop fit the exhaust to it.

TBH I'd probably keep the wheels for when it's time to sell the car again...

If you are looking for an already turbo'd Miata, you could search here Miata Turbo forum. Many for sale, with varying levels of modification.

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

The MSM (as the Mazdaspeed is known) is a pretty decent car that can be turned into a really nice car easily. If I was looking for maximum performance for minimal effort in a Miata wrapped in a nice package, that's where I'd start. Nice interior, an attractive set of body modifications and the non-leather seats are comfortable, attractive and offer good butt traction. They don't show off their best attributes on a test drive, but with a few well-chosen modifications they show their potential. The stock suspension is pretty good, as good as any Miata that ever came from the factory.

Anyhow, here's what I would do with one.

• Little enchilada. Takes the stock power from 150 at the wheels to 200, brings in a lot more power down low and smooths out the boost response. All without having to deal with programmable computers or anything more complex than a manual boost controller. Do not bypass the 10 psi boost cut as some people like to do, it's designed to kick in right when the stock injectors run out of fuel. It's a very well-designed safety item and the stock turbo is happiest at 8-9 psi anyhow.

• Lose the wheels. They may be Racing Harts, but they have the structural integrity of butter and cost a bloody fortune. It's no coincidence that we get a lot of phone calls to our salvage department looking for single MSM wheels. Sell 'em and get some nice 15s with a 225/45-15 tire. You might even turn a profit if you use a wheel like the TR Motorsports C1, which can help pay for the Little Echilada.

• Pull the 6-speed and replace it with a 5-speed. You'll get better shifting, more relaxed cruising revs and a much more useable powerband. Plus if you do the work yourself, it'll pay for at least half of that Little Enchilada.

• Rollbar. Kinda assumed for me anyhow.

I don't know if I'd touch the suspension. Probably eventually

When you're done, you don't have a project car. You've got a nicely sorted, quick Miata that could have plausibly come from the factory this way. The downside is that if you want MOAR, you'll hit the limitations of a number of components at once so the next step is a big one.

We have a bunch of Miatas at FM, as you might imagine. We bought an MSM so we could develop our line of parts for it, intending to sell it soon after we were done. It turned out to be one of the nicest cars in the fleet, and it took a long time to convince the owners that it needed to move on to make room for other cars.

BoxheadTim wrote: I'm still hoping that I'll be able to insure a Corvette C4/C5 for reasonable when I move to the US but I'm not too convinced I will be. As I'm on fairly strict orders to get something new-ish and reliable ...

Miata's are great. But if you want a 'vette, its not a 'vette.

my c-4 (89 coupe 6 speed) cost me $10 more a year to insure than the 1993 Dodge spirit (2.5 tbi 3 speed auto) I dropped. Cheap to insure.

When I questioned the insurance salesman why it was so low to insure his explanation was something like this: Insurance company base rates (to a very large degree) on the claim history of specific vehicles. As the majority of corvette owners are responsible middle aged adults who keep them in a garage and only drive on nice days, there are very few claims and thus the rates are low.

I would suggest you have a chat with your insurance salesman. There is a possibility the miata might cost more to insure. Insurance can be funny in the US sometimes. Miata will be cheaper to run however. I can touch 30 mpg on the highway, but that's with 93 octane. I can also swing 12 mpg with in town driving and autocrossing mixed in. I need to buy 2x everything (plugs wires etc) and other parts are pricier. Miata's top is easier to put down than the targa in the 'vette. C5's can be very reliable too.

Good luck.

dyintorace wrote: If you are looking for an already turbo'd Miata, you could search here Miata Turbo forum. Many for sale, with varying levels of modification.

Thanks - I've got bad experiences with buying a preconverted turbo Miata (had one before), hence the appeal of getting one that's got a factory turbo.

In reply to Keith: Thanks for the additional info, it's much appreciated. The 200hp you quoted, is that at the crank or wheels? Just curious...

Unfortunately I think I'd have to stick with the 6-speed unless I find a trustworthy shop to do the work.

Miatas tend to be quite cheap to insure, by the way. The majority of Miata owners are responsible middle aged adults who keep them in a garage and only drive on nice days At least, that's the case for newer ones.

daytonaer wrote: Miata's are great. But if you want a 'vette, its not a 'vette. my c-4 (89 coupe 6 speed) cost me $10 more a year to insure than the 1993 Dodge spirit (2.5 tbi 3 speed auto) I dropped. Cheap to insure.

I keep hearing that. I'm used to what we have to pay in Europe to insure an American car so it's hard for me to believe that they're quite cheap to insure .

daytonaer wrote: I would suggest you have a chat with your insurance salesman. There is a possibility the miata might cost more to insure. Insurance can be funny in the US sometimes. Miata will be cheaper to run however. I can touch 30 mpg on the highway, but that's with 93 octane. I can also swing 12 mpg with in town driving and autocrossing mixed in. I need to buy 2x everything (plugs wires etc) and other parts are pricier. Miata's top is easier to put down than the targa in the 'vette. C5's can be very reliable too.

Well, the "talk to the insurance salesman" is going to be interesting. They're going to look at me as a new driver (new immigrant, so no US drivers license). It's going to be entertaining to have my wife talk to The Lizard (which is who we're insured with atm) and see what they have to say. They've kicked up a big fuss recently and threatened to cancel our/my wife's car insurance because I haven't got a US driver's license. Well yes, I haven't moved over there yet. They gave us another six months but as the insurance will be renewed before I move, we don't even know if they're going to renew again. Ann's already mentioned that we might want to change insurance companies once I'm over.

I know a Miata is going to be cheaper to run unless I stick an LS1 in it. I love them (have had 3 so far) but I have the nasty suspicion that it'll probably become a stepping stone towards a Corvette or another 911.

Of course there's also the slight issue of finding the vette I'd want (green, manual, Z51 and ideally a convertible with both tops) so I might well have to buy a stop gap car.

US driver's license is easy. You can basically walk into the DMV and ask for one.

However, if you don't have a credit history, get ready for some pain. I found that out when I moved to the US. For some reason, the insurance companies couldn't be bothered to access my Canadian credit history and so I got put in the "serial killer" risk pool. Ouch.

Yes, I heard about the ease of obtaining a driver's license. I guess I'm not too keen on resitting the various tests as I tend to suck in test situations. Got to be done, though.

Yeah, I know about the 'serial killer' type credit history. Fortunately I have an Amex card over here and Amex supposedly takes that into account and will issue one in the US and that's supposed to help. Plus I guess I'll have to break the two habits in one go and potentially buy a car both from a dealer and partially on finance even if I have all the cash in the bank. Supposedly doing that (and obviously making timely car payments) will have a massive positive impact on your credit history. It's not like I haven't done that before, same thing happened when I moved from Germany to the UK.

I agree with Keith's list of items to change and other poster's remarks on the MSM. I used to have one. Bought it brand new. Its a wonderful car let down by some odd choices in engine setup and gearing.

It has some nice body upgrades that make the car look sportier. It has the best stock suspension and brakes Mazda ever put on a Miata. It also has the nicest interior of any NA or NB Miata with regards to design and materials.

I got sick of the car pretty quickly b/c of the low redline, odd boost response and buzzy gearing. If you throw the FM gear on it, it will be a very nice, fun Miata. W/o the FM gear, I did not like it. Which is why I sold it.

I sold my one-owner 1990 Miata about 1.5 years ago to buy a MazdaSpeed. I must admit, I miss the tossable feel of the NA, but the MazdaSpeed is much nicer to drive, especially on a long trip. They handle well with a stock suspension and the chassis bracing makes it feel much stiffer. Supposedly the MazdaSpeed came with shot-peened gearbox internals and heavier half-shafts to handle the power increase. Weight is the real downside (about 400 lbs. more than an early NA).

I've done the Little Enchilada, and that adds enough power for me to not want more in a DD. Going beyond this level would require enough of an expense that I said good enough (for now). The only complaint I still have about it is a noticeable lag in power between 4000 and 5200. The sudden jump in power at 5200 can make life interesting coming out of a corner. This is a known issue with the stock ECU running lean before going into open loop mode. I'm considering addressing this issue with the Hydra ECU FM sells. From what I hear, it does a good job of smoothing out the power curve.

Keith wrote: - Pull the 6-speed and replace it with a 5-speed. You'll get better shifting, more relaxed cruising revs and a much more useable powerband. Plus if you do the work yourself, it'll pay for at least half of that Little Enchilada.

With respect to the source of this quote, I'd try to source the 3.65 rear end gearing from an Australian 6 speed car rather than swap out the 6 speed.

"I know a Miata is going to be cheaper to run unless I stick an LS1 in it."

The conversion won't be a give away but I wouldn't be surprised if the LS1 actually gave better gas mileage than the stock drivetrain. This probably sounds like insanity until you think about the highway mileage of the manual transmission Corvettes; these things are heavier and carry a lot more tire and pull in very similar mile per gallon ratings. Unless the Miata is extremely poor aerodynamically this seems like a great way of adding a ton of power and keeping the fuel bills the same as before.

Yeah, LS Miatas can run mid-30's on the highway without too much difficulty. That super-tall 6th gear helps a lot.

About the 5-speed swap - not only do you get better gearing, but the 5-speed shifts far better than the 6. Installing a taller rear won't fix that. I'm not saying everyone should do it (although I do recommend it), but it's what I would do to an MSM. It's drastically cheaper than sourcing a new R&P as well - it would not surprise me that the difference between swapping the 5-speed and selling the 6, vs sourcing a new R&P and having it set up was close to a grand.

And it's also what we did to the FM MSM. It was a much nicer car afterwards, nobody missed the old 6-speed box. For the power levels of a MSM with a stock ECU, the 5-speed is more than strong enough.

And yes, the MSM has stronger axles. Not that you hear about a lot of Miatas busting their axles, and especially not with 150 rwhp like a stock MSM - but Mazda apparently had some concerns.

Joe, the O2 signal modifier is supposed to deal with that hesitation. If it's not working, give us a call. The Hydra certainly does get rid of it though.

Keith wrote: Miatas tend to be quite cheap to insure, by the way. The majority of Miata owners are responsible middle aged adults who keep them in a garage and only drive on nice days At least, that's the case for newer ones.

If insurance tends to be close between corvettes and miata's,

Price a set of 285 35 18's then price some 205 50 15's. Or compare 275 40 17's to 195 15's.

If your working with a budget, rubber is a BIG difference.

and let us know what you get I like both