Teach me about the RX-8

I've been looking for a car for my son and notice there are a lot of RX-8's that come up in my searches. I know the basics about them, but am wondering if there are significant weak points to these cars or not. What kind of mileage do they get - typical blah rotary mileage? Reliability is important as well. Anything you can tell me about them would be great. Thanks in advance, guys.

I don't have any first hand experience with them, but I've heard gas mileage can be pretty pitiful. Also, you need to warm them up every drive, or else it will flood and won't start. No quick trips around the block. You need to drive them hard every so often to keep the seals tight against the housings, and no synthetic oil. Avoid the automatics, because the lower redline prevents people from revving them as high as they need for seal maintenance.

Other than that, I've heard they're fantastic cars to drive.

Fuel consumption of a V8, peak power output of a V6, torque of a weed whacker, sound of a vacuum cleaner. Spectacular handling. Relatively lucky to go 100K miles before a rebuilds. Be sure to do ignition coils every year or so, replace cats preventatively, rev it like mad and warm it up before shutting it down. Most people premix some oil in the gas tank.

Any recommendation to buy one will come with a bunch of caveats, even from the people who love them. Seems like a bad car to give a teenage driver unless you want to be guaranteed he'll learn the hard way how important it is to maintain the car properly. ;)

Based on my experience, the general car semi-reliable, I don't have constant repairs, etc. You do need to be aware that the engines are not the most reliable, but vehicle prices generally reflect this. They have a bit of a rust problem (as did a number of Mazdas of similar vintage) and there are a few things that I've had break that you wouldn't expect. Cats fail fairly frequently and clutch pedal bracket is weak. I found the original springs sagged rather quickly and a shock fail. The millage is not good and it requires premium, but perhaps that's an incentive to simply drive a little less. I'm not sure that the transmission is the greatest either (S1s have the same basic unit as in the FRS/BRZ/S2K/IS250).

The car itself is wonderful to drive. The handling, the controlability and finesse of the handling, shifter, steering, brakes are all terrific. I like the engine, reving to 9k, the sound, etc, but it's not the quickest in a straight line.

From previous thread about RX-8s

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/enablers-please-explain-to-me-why-id-want-an-rx8-r/89116/page2/

CGLockRacer wrote: I love my R3 as far as the trackability vs. DD-ability compromise. I've stopped DD-ing it for a couple of reasons. Maintenance, fuel economy, and MI roads with 19" wheels and no sidewall tires. Maintenance wise, I change the oil every 3K. I use Idemitsu rotary synthetic. I also put in 4oz of Idemitsu fuel mix every tank (6 oz on track days) for a little extra lube. I have to mail order the oils so shipping adds up. The oil itself is on par with other synthetics price wise. Track pads last me 3/4 of a season and rotors about 1.5-2 seasons. I also rebuilt the front calipers. I do tend to melt the rubber dust boots for the piston and the slider pins. It eats spark plugs 15k-25k for me with track time, but they are a 30 min. job taking my time to remove the wheel for easier access. Coils should be replaced every 30k miles. I had 35k on mine and noticed a difference. I had changed the plugs and wires at 30k. The coils smoothed everything out a bit. Fuel economy. With a 60 mile per day commute, < 18 mpg avg. with Prem. fuel was not cutting it anymore. When I lived with my ex, 4 miles was much better. Best I have EVER gotten in the car was 22mpg and that was for an extended 55-65 mph highway trip in moderate traffic. And for the wheels and tires, I already have a slight bend in at least one rim due to MI's lack of road maintenance after last winter. I see you are in NV though, so you should have almost no issues there. Try one on for fit first if you haven't before. The R3 specific Recaros are tight. I'm 185 lbs, 5'9" and they fit tight on me, but in a somewhat comfortable way. I added an air lumbar support because they have no lumbar in them at all. The only mods I have made are Hotchkis anti-roll bars, a short shifter, Carbotech pads, SS brake lines, modified cat-pipe (factory cat pipe and resonator with stright pipe instead of cat) and modified muffler (modified guts to make it louder). I added Hotchkis anti-roll bars F&R to tune out some of the understeer, as well as help body roll induced tire wear. I can't get enough front camber to evenly wear the tires. The anti-roll bars helped a lot in that regard. They help the car rotate more on corner entry and balance it out nicely. The only issue I have on track with it is fuel starvation. The fuel gauge is not accurate at high-g's. It reads 1/2 tank when it has less than 1/4. The Torque app. provides a better fuel level estimation, but I have been caught out a couple times by low fuel even when the fuel gauge says I am OK. It was also too quiet, hence the modified muffler. It is still one of the quietest cars out there. I couldn't hear the engine over wind noise at >80 mph. As a DD, the R3's ride is very firm, but not overly harsh. The interior is still tight and mostly squeak free after 45k miles. The stereo is the nicest I've had, but I don't really worry about that when purchasing a car. The lack of sunroof helps with helmet and head room for sure. The seats are comfortable for about an hour and a half for me before I start feeling it. Also, the steering wheel reach is a bit too far away for me if my legs are comfortable. (Just a nit pick, I find that problem in a lot of cars without telescoping steering wheels.) If I were planning on keeping the car longer, I would make some more adjustments. I have had to have the outer driver side bolster re-done due to the typical vinyl cracking and hole forming. I also have to fix the "shoulder harness" pass thorough trim since they have started to fall out. I DDed it for about 30k miles without any issues and it is always a car that brings a smile to my face when driving it (until I need a gas station in <250 miles). I also happen to instruct with the local PCA. While I don't have much road experience in 996s, I do have some track time with a couple. They are a bit softer, but have more punch out of the turns and a bit higher top speed. Laptime wise, I am on par with a well driven stock 996. With a really good driver, they are a bit faster, but don't run away from me. The R3 is definitely a momentum car. You must be really, really smooth with it to make it go fast, so it does help your driving. Wow, I've written a novel here. I guess I really don't want to work today EDIT: Looking at that car it has a few upgrades. It already has the Enkei RPF1 wheels (but it lost the special R3 wheels) and looks like a Racing Beat exhaust. It is missing the engine cover and battery cover. Make sure there is a maintenance history if you go with that car. Get a compression test done by a competent, rotary experienced mechanic. EDIT 2: Looks like they have ATE blue in the brake system. It has either been tracked, or used by someone who tracks cars. Good or bad depending on maintenance.

in summary: simple to work on, cats/coils tend to fail, expect 18mpg average, suicide doors are too cool. Oh and it has a rotary engine so everyone has an opinion and experience on that and they all vary drastically.

also! Dont get a sunroof model if your over 6'2 and the automatic cars are garbage.

if you baby them you will break them.

Thanks guys. I think I'm convinced that this isn't the car for him.

no torque, no mpgs, no reliability, and certainly a fun car. The car isn't intuitive in how you should drive it to maintain reliability. You need the rev it out regularly for it to remain reliable. Probably would make a good fuel sucking track car.

Car is an example of why Mazda ditched the rotary. It would of been so much better with a MS3 engine.

Get your son a 350z.

Pretty much everything above is accurate in my experience. I have a 2005 RX8 and I thoroughly enjoy it. I have had several friends ask if I would recommend an 8 and I usually say no. It is an awesome car but you have to love it and the rotary engine enough to learn about and put up with their quirks. If you are wanting one because it looks cool and is fun to drive then it is not for you. If you are wanting one because you love it and are willing to put up with its issues then it will put a smile on your face every time you look at it.

So basically, buy one with a blown motor and swap an LSJuan in its place and enjoy. Got it.

kanaric wrote: Get your son a 350z.

Drive a 350Z and then drive a RX-8. Then try to tell yourself the 350Z is the better car. I couldn't. :)

From a financial perspective, 5.5 years later I'm better off for owning the RX-8 than if I'd bought a 350Z, problems and all, primarily due to depreciation advantages. Fuel economy is ~10-15% different, IMO you're not going to notice it that much. Obviously they're getting older now and it's a different situation when a father is recommending a car for his son.

Snrub, the biggest difference I see is that I can buy an RX8 for about $5k give or take a bit, and more than double that for the cheaper 350s. My 370 usually gets around 22 in town, and about 28 or so highway (which should be similar), my friend's RX8 about 15 in town, about 18 to 20 on the highway. Subjectively, the RX8 is the superior driver no question, but would the 350 would be much friendlier to own even with the cost difference?

I blew my original engine at 85,000 miles but I suspect it was due to an inadequate cooling system repair following a front end collision and Mazda replaced it with a rebuilt engine at no charge. I’ve now got 129,000 miles on the replacement engine and its working fine.

With the exception of replacing the radiator due to a cracked weld (see above) and the passenger airbag stress line cracking (eight years of sitting out in the California sun), absolutely everything looks and works perfectly.

I’m sorry to sound like a fanboy and obviously I only represent one data point but my particular car has been great. I’ve averaged 21.4 mpg throughout the car’s history (six speed, 90+% freeway, just turned fifty so I’m easier on the throttle than most RX-8 owners). I’ve flooded it once (bad battery) but no heroics were required to get it started once the battery was replaced.

I love these things but a lot of people seem to have trouble with them so I’d be reluctant to recommend them to anyone that doesn’t love cars and understand what they’re getting into.

I put my RX-8 in the garage (meaning all up with tax, license, registration, and destination) for just under $24,000 and I’m happy to pay $250 a month for such a rewarding car as this. As a result, I hit my “who cares” mark in January so it doesn’t owe me a thing at this point.

I don't think it's fair to compare "I get" numbers for fuel economy. EPA numbers aren't perfect, but they at least have standardized methodology. Searching MT's website for the '04 models for both cars shows the MPG range is 18-26 for the 350Z and 18-24 for the RX-8. I fully concede that real world millage would likely be a little less favorable to the RX-8.

A $5k price delta covers an engine replacement. Deciding whether that is enough of a price difference is a personal decision. When I bought there was an even greater difference. I might suggest a >2004 RX-8 to improve the potential reliability.

On my last trip to Maine i averaged 24.2 MPG so you can all suck it!!

(note this is traveling at midnight on a Wednesday the week after a holiday)

I will have to agree with most, this is a car for the dedicated and is not crazy forgiving on the lack of maintenance but taken care of someone who gives a damn and knows what they are doing it is worth every second.

A miata would be a much better starter vehicle for a teen, then if they take care of that the move to an RX8 might be a better bet.

Did anyone finish the LSx conversion kit, including dashboard?

Wow, yeah, I'm always amazed at the hate this board throws on the 8. I've had mine since 2007, it's the first car I ever bought new. I'm up to 60k, and I've changed oil, coolant and a set of spark plugs, brake fluid and pads. I've probably averaged ~20mpg over its life, but there's a couple of track days thrown in there, so a few miles of 6-8 mpg bring down the bunch :)

The whole "trick" to rotaries is to simply beat them like they owe you money. After it's up to temp, you should plan on redlining once a day minimum. That burns out any excess deposits and keeps the cat healthier as well. Check the oil level about every other or every third fill up, or at least take it seriously when the low oil light comes on in the dash.

My friends with 350zs don't get that much better on highway (they've seen 26ish vs my 22ish).

Everyone jumps on the torque level, but I've seen the same people praise s2000s, which have extremely similar power to weight and curves. I've got no complaints there, but it won't hit you at 1200 rpm, either.

I'm obvously a fan boy, and I've logged over 300k on rotary engines, but I love mine, and I can't think if anything I'd replace it with at the moment.

Oh, and as far as setting the car up, the suspension is superb from the factory, but the shocks will be tired by 60-80k, I know mine are going a bit soft..

I've ridden in a few that people put coil overs on and made the handling worse, so be cautious there. Normal rules apply, get koni or something else reputable, and sway bars seem to be the best bang for the buck.

Like any other car, I'd avoid the first year of production here, 2004, due to some teething issues.

In reply to Snrub:

I could

Would a V6 or LS1 engine swap be a good fit for these cars if you buy a shell?

In reply to Mr_Clutch42:

http://www.v8roadsters.com/category-s/248.htm

They have some pics on their Facebook page.

I ask this because I believe that extra maintenance, reasonable power numbers, low torque, and low mpgs are a few reasons that normal people didn't want to buy them, especially late in it's life. I think that Mazda will eventually make a Rx-9, and I'm pondering if they should use a V6 instead of a rotary engine.

While I've decided that this isn't the car for my son, and I don't need any more projects, these things are pretty cheap on the used car market around here. I think it would make a great foundation for an engine swap.

I view RX8s like I used to my old British cars, before you let someone hit the road with one, they needed a cliff notes book and secret handshake. You can't just let someone loose in one without them know about its little foibles. The 350Z however would be like loaning someone your Corolla.