TEXAS NEEDS YOUR HELP

I can't even imagine I'm having to write these words, it is one of the most Texan things that you could imagine happening, but the Bureacracy has struck. Unfortunately it's not an elected official that could have been voted out.

As many have heard we have suddenly had kit car & buggy titles revoked and come to find out this is connected to Tesla not being able to sell their cars in Texas, you have to do it online.

Out of the blue with no warning certain cars began getting titles revoked and it took us at least a year to realize this was a determined attack and kit cars were really just the tip of the iceberg.

This is a problem that will affect you soon if it's not stopped here. As I understand it some of this has already spread to Va. Many states are watching this closely and we've finally found out that it's the TADA (Texas Automotive Dealers Association) that's created and fostering the problem. We think with the backing of other states. Hot Rodders, you're next!

Did you know that Bugs with cut fenders and exposed engines are being targeted to?

Guys if enough of you sent even $5 it would go a long way towards letting us pay the Lobbyist that has been fighting for us.  It's crunch time with the legislature back in session and our bill about to be introduced.

GRM I believe this is a problem worthy of an online article and something in the magazine.  This directly affects so many of your readers.

Join this FB group to stay up to date AND to donate and help us fight this. Lobbyists aren't cheap. I've been spending my money here.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/SavetheTexasDuneBuggy

I keep telling them they need to open the name up and the thrust of the threads to get more people with cars other than Dune Buggies but they keep shouting me down saying that Factory Five and a couple of others are helping so they think everyone understands it affects them too.

THEY DON'T maybe you guys can add your 2 cents worth there and people I talk to constantly think it's a Dune Buggy only problem.

Here are a couple of recent posts:

#1"It has been a pretty active day for us at the Texas State Capitol, as we have a little more news regarding Save the Texas Dune Buggy, Sandrail & Kitcar. We have confirmation as to who it is that is trying to rid Texas roads from Dune Buggies, Sandrails & Kitcars. The lobbyist for TADA (Texas Automobile Dealers Association) spoke with Ron (our lobbyist) at the Capitol & told him TADA is opposing our bill. Even though the bill has not been filed & they have not had the opportunity to read a word of it.

"The Texas Automobile Dealers Association (TADA) is the statewide trade association representing over 1,300 franchised automobile dealerships in nearly 300 communities throughout the state of Texas.TADA advocates on behalf of the dealers at the Texas Legislature, Congress, and all regulatory agencies.”
For those of you who do not know General Counsel for TADA has been involved with this issue from the start, yet they have been VERY Closed lipped at EVERY MEETING!

When discussions on the safety of our cars was brought up, and we asked how a Dune Buggy, Sandrail or Kitcar was less Safe then a Motorcycle. Tada had nothing to say.

When we asked why the TxDMV felt that a Assembled Vehicle was less safe than that of a Motorcycle, Hot Rod, Rat Rod, etc., and the TxDMV responded with "Those vehicles are in a different catagory". TADA had nothing to say.

When we asked the TxDMV for data to PROVE that our Vehicles were unsafe. TADA had nothing to say.
When we showed the TxDMV that NHTSA had written a letter talking about how an Assembled Vehicle was not governed by the Federal Government, & that it was up to the individual State to regulate them. TADA had nothing to say.

When we showed Graphics of how other categories of vehicles modified their chassis in much the same way as a person did for an Original Dune Buggy, and the TxDMV only said that those vehicles were in a different category. TADA had nothing to say.

When Jeremiah Kuntz, the Director of the Vehicle Titles & Registration Division for the TxDMV directly asked TADA General Counsel what they had to say about the 3 Working Group Meetings that were set up by the TxDMV Board of Directors. TADA had nothing to say.

Of all the time and money that has been spent thus far during both Working Group Meetings as well as TxDMV Board Meetings that TADA has been DIRECTLY INVOLVED in. TADA has had nothing to say.
Fast forward to today when their lobbyist told ours, that TADA will be opposing our bill BEFORE they have even had a chance to read it. Stating that they are doing so because they heard they were unsafe automobiles. This is 100% disgusting, Friends!

Folks, we now have absolute confirmation who our enemy is! At the right time we will need EVERYONE to call their legislator and give them the facts. They need to hear from US the Builders & Owners what the facts are in regards to our vehicles, and NOT the distorted arguments that TADA will give.
The FIGHT is on, & that is all we have for now!"



#2 "A conversation that I read here on this page, got me to thinking. Kuntz, the Director of Title and Registration Division of the TxDMV, would meekly mention this as he would glance at General Counsel for TADA (Texas Automotive Dealers Association) during TxDMV Board Meetings as well as during the Working Group meetings. They didn’t want our problem to become another Tesla Issue.

For those of you who do not know, Tesla is not able to sell their cars in the state of Texas. In the interests of Texas Dealers, TADA does not want a manufacture such as Tesla to sell vehicles directly to the public. Therefore, giving the manufacture the ability to regulate many things, how the customer is handled, and price for an example. TADAs goal is to protect the Franchised Dealer & not the consumer. A manufacture with the ability to regulate the price of their own vehicle, is not good for the Franchised Dealer.

Just like you, I have seen Tesla “Dealerships”. So after having lunch with my Buddy Scott yesterday, I decided to stop into the Tesla “Dealership” to find out the truth for myself as it was on my way home. When I walked in I was greeted by a nice young lady, and after we exchanged pleasantries. I got to my point and said. “I have read that you cannot purchase a Tesla in the State of Texas. Yet here you are, selling Teslas in Texas”.

The young lady quickly responded that the location was not a “Dealership” it was a Service Center, with a Learning Center inside. She went on to say that she is not a commissioned salesperson, she was there to educate people who wanted to learn more about what Tesla had to offer. She then showed me what an AWESOME vehicle they are, how the price continues to come down as technology as well as infrastructure advances.

So at that point I said that I was interested in purchasing one for my wife. How do I go about doing so here in Texas, where Teslas can not be sold. ( No I have no real intentions to do so) So then she took me over to a computer screen that would show me all the options that were available, but not one price was to be seen. INTERESTING, to put it mildly.

She then told me that if I was interested in purchasing a Tesla, I couldn’t do so at their location. I would need to order online from the Corporate out of state location. They would either locate one that closely resembles what would fit my needs, or build one just the way I want. If I planned to pay cash, I would need to wire transfer the money to a Bank that is out of state, or I was able to choose to finance the vehicle through the bank of my choice. Either way all paperwork would be handled electronically via a Corporate location out of state. Then once the vehicle is paid for & all the paperwork is done electronically out of state. Tesla would deliver the vehicle to a scheduled location of my choice other than the “Service Center”
This is not Tesla circumventing Texas Law. This is beating Tada & the TxDMV at their very own game. They are not technically selling Teslas in Texas, but people are purchasing a Tesla out of state without ever leaving Texas. It does take a lot longer than the traditional method, & there is no instant gratification. But you end up owning a Tesla either way. What this should do is give us hope in that we can beat them as well. We have a Lobbyist with a very successful track record when it comes to going against the TxDMV & TADA, more than a few really enthusiastic legislators on our side, but more than anything we have this group right here. A group that continues to grow, & is standing at attention ready to do what it takes to beat the TxDMV & TADA in a Grassroots effort! WE ARE GOING TO CORRECT THIS ISSUE! GET READY FOLKS!!!"

Who'd a ever thunk something like this could come to Texas?!?!? Cali yes, but TEXAS??????? And it's not an elected official so we can't even vote him out.

It's been posited that states like Tx are so popular they attract people from states with unpopular laws yet those same people bring the same the govt must tell me how to wipe my ass attitude they fled. Who knows but this certainly does suck.

In this case given that it's dealer influenced then at this point I'd have to say it's native Tejanos that are to blame.

Dealers could they be worse? 

Dealers know they are bad, that is why they need state laws to stay in business.

nutherjrfan said:

It's been posited that states like Tx are so popular they attract people from states with unpopular laws yet those same people bring the same the govt must tell me how to wipe my ass attitude they fled. Who knows but this certainly does suck.

As a native Texan myself, I will tell you that you are spot on.  Why bring the same economy killing ideals you fled with you?  I’m seriously tempted to register all my vehicles using a Montana LLC.

Wow! Not the first time ive been surprised by some odd legislature there. Not being able to give away beer was surprising. Go to chillis for 2 for 1’s. Nope. I was told they had tried a few different ways to circumvent it. Buy one get one for a nickle, guess that was killed too. Whats more texas then having a few cold ones and getting a free beer?

auto dealers know that EVERYONE hates dealing with them. Im surprised they haven't tried to pass a bill saying you can only buy used cars from a dealership, for our “safety”. 

Government knows best!

How the hell can a title be revoked?  That would get grandfathered anywhere else!

I can see registration getting revoked, but ownership?

Sounds like I need to open mndsm's florida title and registration service. 

I work a lot for dealerships. 

As autonomous and AI cars come to fruition, dealers are gonna find themselves caught with their pants down as manufacturers learn they can copy Tesla’s model and cut the dealers out of the equation. 

Heck, manufacturers may even begin retaining ownership and never actually selling the vehicles- just license their use.

Dealers don’t work for the customers. Dealers work for the manufacturers, and manufacturers are perfectly happy to cut dealers out of the equation when they won’t play by the manufacturers’ rules. 

The last 2 dealership projects I worked on the dealerships each spent over $2 million extra to meet the manufacturers’ guidelines.  Do it or die.

As baby boomers phase out, so will dealerships. 

SVreX said:

As baby boomers phase out, so will dealerships. 

Good. 

Bring on the manufacturer owned stores and service centers.   Making dealers franchise owned has never once benefitted me the consumer, as far as I can tell.  I havent done business with a dealership in years, possibly a decade.  I don't miss it.  

In reply to Flynlow :

I wasn’t saying it’s bad.  It just is.

The dealership system is obsolete. It WILL go away, the only question is when. 

Which makes me less concerned about the success or failure of a dealership lobbying group (this thread). I am not sure the threat is whether TX passes a law that helps dealers (if dealers are gonna one day be gone). I think the bigger concern is the power that manufacturers are going to yield very soon over the marketplace. 

Manufacturers will not care about dune buggies or kit cars. That’s not their market. They WILL care, however, about controlling new car buyers, and the 2nd or 3rd generation of new car buyers after that. 

This does seem important, but it also seems like a little bit of a distraction. 

There are a lot of business models that need the government to regulate them into existence, but car dealerships are probably among the biggest and most powerful politically. The owners of the new car dealership groups are among the richest men in any big city, and like most of the richest men in any city they generally align themselves with 'whichever' party is going to regulate their wealth accumulation the least. 

Texas is gerrymandered in such a way that things that are considered normal elsewhere simply can't be accomplished here. We are on the bleeding edge of what 'the party of business' will do to survive. It won't last much longer, but it will get worse before it gets better. We recently hosted the most expensive US Senate race in history. Like carguy was saying, it was a case of a whole lot of money flowing in from other states to prop up something that would be unpopular anywhere else. In this case it was Ted Cruz. Texas is both the test bed for right leaning policies that wouldn't fly in places that weren't already heavily gerrymandered, AND the canary in their coal mine, which is why a bunch of money flows here from other states propping up bad (in terms of being representative of the wishes of the population) policy. Once Texas falls, so does a whole house of cards nationally. That's why we need a wall so bad, right? I had one of my students on Thursday tell me they were going to miss their lab because they would be at their naturalization ceremony. In college, with voting rights? Statistically speaking that is bad news for the people in power here. The large influx of Californians that was alluded to might be a more immediate problem though, since realistically being to the right of California doesn't mean you aren't still to the left of Texas. Only 2.7%  need to move left (of Ted Cruz, not center) or start voting to start the landslide, if the last senate race would tell you anything. 

I dont think car dealerships even in California are struggling specifically because Tesla is allowed to sell cars, and I dont think any new car dealership anywhere is competing with sand rails and kit cars. This is all collateral damage to a bunch of stupidity that a lot of people who want sand rails and kit cars don't realize that they are unintentionally propping up. The TADA may be using 'heavy handed government regulation' to reach into your pocket and steal your freedom, but that doesn't make them a left leaning organization. They're just a lobbying group in a system where there is more incentive to make a deal with lobbyists then there is to make a deal across the aisle. That is a natural progression of gerrymandering your way towards a one party system, and if the 'opposition party' ever did fully cease to function as checks and balances because their political power had dropped so far, that's the only type of deal that would ever occur. So, if you feel like plutocracy is interfering with your right to play with cars because you don't have enough money to outbid the TADA at the political auction house, voting GOP in Texas is not going to make things better. 

Instead of diluting efforts, get SEMA involved. They already have a powerful lobbing team. 

So two guys are saying that despite the fact that Texas has the worst such rules in the country, those rules are, in fact, the fault of people who have come in from out of state.  While most of the others are saying that it's actually your greedy-ass car dealers. I know which one makes more sense to me, and it's the one with the hook-shaped finger. 

The Texas legislature has been owned by big business lobbyists for many many years.  This is just another example.

Here's a hopeful counter story: I live in Ontario in Soviet Canuckistan. We just finished with 14 years of a left wing government that was very into regulating behavior, etc. The first premier (combination of House speaker and governor) stated publically that he took pride in his nickname "premier Dad". Interestingly, they made a number of changes to permit enthusiast types of behaviors. For instance, three wheeled vehicles became legal (eg. Polaris Slingshot). It also became legal to ride ATVs and snowmobiles on public roads. There were others related to hot rod/classics that I can't recall. If it can change here, it can change there. The obstacles are likely not right/left.

In reply to Kreb :

Well Kreb most of the dealers in TX have been recently purchased by an investment firm that started where......  I'll give you zero guesses, since you are so far off base to start with.  If you think the influx of people from failing states into this one isn't affecting things, you should move here and you can join them. 

alfadriver said:

Instead of diluting efforts, get SEMA involved. They already have a powerful lobbing team. 

Seriously how long has this been going on for and why has SEMA not gotten involved? I expected them to be involved the moment this came to light months ago.

In reply to The0retical :

Why is everyone assuming SEMA isn't involved?

 

Of course, the kit car community is fighting back. Vincent Parisien, the president of the Manx Club, told Hemmings, "We’re not about making the streets more dangerous. Our members are willing to go through all the same safety standards as other cars." Another enthusiast, Faron Smith, started a GoFundMe campaign to hire lobbyist Ron Hinkle, the man who got the Polaris Slingshot approved for street use in Texas, to fight this ban on the owners' behalf. The SEMA Action Network and the Historic Vehicle Association are stepping into the fight as well.

I'm confused as berk? How is selling a Tesla and removing the fenders from your Baja Bug able to be used in the same sentence?

Appleseed said:

I'm confused as berk? How is selling a Tesla and removing the fenders from your Baja Bug able to be used in the same sentence?

I am with you on that. It makes zero sense to me

AnthonyGS said:

nutherjrfan said:

It's been posited that states like Tx are so popular they attract people from states with unpopular laws yet those same people bring the same the govt must tell me how to wipe my ass attitude they fled. Who knows but this certainly does suck.

As a native Texan myself, I will tell you that you are spot on.  Why bring the same economy killing ideals you fled with you?  I’m seriously tempted to register all my vehicles using a Montana LLC.

Wait, what? Texans are blaming non- Texans for berkeleying up Texas law? Come on dudes. Even CA doesn't confiscate titles... that's homegrown bullE36 M3.

Teh E36 M3 said:

AnthonyGS said:

nutherjrfan said:

It's been posited that states like Tx are so popular they attract people from states with unpopular laws yet those same people bring the same the govt must tell me how to wipe my ass attitude they fled. Who knows but this certainly does suck.

As a native Texan myself, I will tell you that you are spot on.  Why bring the same economy killing ideals you fled with you?  I’m seriously tempted to register all my vehicles using a Montana LLC.

Wait, what? Texans are blaming non- Texans for berkeleying up Texas law? Come on dudes. Even CA doesn't confiscate titles... that's homegrown bullE36 M3.

It's easier to register a kit car in CA than anywhere else I've been, the SB-100 process is well documented. I got it done in TN, but it was an absolute pain. Also <= 1975 cars you can literally do anything with - just watch a few episodes of RoadKill.... But it's definitely "the people coming in...."

In reply to Cooter :

Because they're not making even close to the noise that they were during the last kit car registration fiasco. Yet anyway.

The Low Volume Manufacturers Bill was on the front page of every automotive news outlet for weeks. 

There's barely been a peep comparatively.

Cooter said:

In reply to The0retical :

Why is everyone assuming SEMA isn't involved?

 

 

Of course, the kit car community is fighting back. Vincent Parisien, the president of the Manx Club, told Hemmings, "We’re not about making the streets more dangerous. Our members are willing to go through all the same safety standards as other cars." Another enthusiast, Faron Smith, started a GoFundMe campaign to hire lobbyist Ron Hinkle, the man who got the Polaris Slingshot approved for street use in Texas, to fight this ban on the owners' behalf. The SEMA Action Network and the Historic Vehicle Association are stepping into the fight as well.

Because someone asked to send support someplace else.   While it's great to demonstrate impact from a bunch of different people, one should focus the largest effort on the most powerful of the lobbies.  Instead of hiring Ron Hinkle, just keep the SEMA lobby funded.  

I've only been in Texas a short while but I have to say that of all the places I've lived it's the worst place I've been for being a car guy. Specifically a car guy without a lot of money. I'm sure it's fine if you have a lot of money.