That's it...I'm just going to have to go dirt track racing again...

Hey all,

I don't really know what the purpose of this post is. It's not really about looking for acceptance. It's not so much about being frustrated. I think it's just more of an epiphany on my part.

There is no form of road racing within a 1.5 hour tow for me (one track is that close, the rest are 2.5 plus). Even Autocross is at least 1.5 hours away from me.

Tires, parts, entry fees, tow fuel, etc are all just darn expensive for road racing.

On the other hand, there are TWO dirt circle tracks within a 45 minute tow of my house. Even more if I drive another half hour or so. Flipping through the Speedway catalogue that's parked next to my toilet has my mind constantly wandering to the "dark side." Cheap...oh-so-cheap parts abound.

The only real racing I've ever done was a "bomber" class of one of the aforementioned tracks during and right after college. If I could get away with having fun on a college student budget (we got an evinrude fuel tank, literally, off-the-curb) you know it's cheap.

I quit doing it because it wore me out doing it alone. That would be the same in any sort of racing (so I recruit friends...no big deal). I have a trailer, now I have a tow vehicle. Another reason I quit before was that I had a baby. Now, that baby's ten and it's not AS big an issue.

As much as I'd love to build one from the ground up, I know the best way to do it would be to buy a roller and toss a junkyard engine in there. I'm thinking mostly about a "hobby stock" type class with a "full bodied" car.

Of course...all this has to happen whence I get back on my feet again after this silly divorce and its impending financial doom.

Really, though, there just aren't many other options in my area for racing...and dirt circle track racing is better than NO racing (which is what I've been doing for the last 10 years).

Actually...one reason that got me thinking of this was the safety aspect. I've been doing the "Back 40" field racing thing, informally with friends over the past few years. The problem there is safety, and the complete lack of it. I still enjoy it, but I turned a guy over last time I did it and we ended up in the ER...(BTW...don't perform a PIT manuver on an Audi Quatro wagon in a pasture at 25mph).

I always wished they had a road racing class that ran cars like the hobby stocks at the local dirt circle track...but on the roadcourse! Why don't they?

Clem

i believe the Lemons and Chumpcar series are pretty much the road racing version of hobby stocks.

I guess so, but...

6+ hours to the nearest event and a car that I could really only use once...or once a season.

I'd also have to round up a bunch of guys I trust to help build and/or drive it (hard to find folks that I trust when it comes to driving...the ONE that comes to mind has a busy day job driving for Roush).

Plus, as cheap as circle track racing is...it's not "$500 minus safety equipment" cheap. And with ChumpLemon I can't do it EVERY WEEK (if I wanted to).

Clem

Go racing and have some fun. Beats wishing to do it, and I agreee about the costs of road racing, they can (are--comments?) be a bit on the high side. Vintage racing is up around $300+ for two half hour practice sessions and one race.

The road racing hobby stock question, I think much of it has to do with speeds capable on even a short road racing course versus a small circle track. That and the distance a car can travel if the suspension breaks on a road course versus the same breakage occuring on a narrow short track.

There is showroom-stock type of road racing, but compared to the hobby or bomber stock at a circle track, it's comparatively expensive.

There's what looked like a POS Mustang II for sale around the corner from me. Legitimate to run at Waterford SpeedBowl here in CT. Show up at Lime Rock with it, and you'd never get it off the trailer. My 2 cents

Dirt track racing looks kinda cool to me. Unfortunately the only unpaved oval near me is still better than an hour away. I'd love to watch late models or something like that. Some of the good ol' boys that do it look stupid, but are mind bogglingly smart when it comes to racing and turning left.

I grew up around oval tracks. When I was old enough, and could afford it, I raced on the dirt oval. After about 5 years of doing it, and a bad 6 week spell that cost me a championship, and a lot of money, I got frustrated and moved on. That was in 1999. I quit, built a car for my dad to race, and used it occassionally over next few years. I wanted to go road racing, and rallying. The over the top rules, and safety rules price both of them out of the reach of normal people (and they wonder why it's dying?). I tried a bunch of other types of racing, but 10 years later, I have come to the realization that there really is no better racing bang for the buck than oval dirt track.

Those lemons, and chumpcar races are fine, but add it up. They're still way too expensive.

If I were to do it again, and it's really just a matter of time, I would probably run another mini stock, and stay away from the big dollar stuff. I had the most fun running the 4 cyl. cars, and because they don't make a lot of power, they don't break as often, and you don't have to worry about the rookie drivers as much. Put a beginner in a 2500 lb car with 300 hp, on dirt, and you're just asking for trouble. Ask me how I know.

Do it. Go to the track, watch a few nights, and see what classes you like best. Grab the rules, and start scheming.

For those of you that have no experience with, or have never seen oval dirt, don't criticize it until you've watched a night's racing, and I don't mean on TV. The nice thing about it, is you can run 20-30 nights per season. That's per track. I have 3 local tracks, and could run 75 nights in a season, if i wanted.

The race night goes like this. Pay your $25 to get in. After practice, run 1, or 2 heats, maybe a consi, then run the feature. A feature win in mini's is $150 locally, and minumum payout after the feature is $25. (your entry fee). Cost of the nights racing, if you don't break is the cost of gas, and if you do well, you pocket some coin. A mini can be built for under $1k, if you can do a lot yourself, or bought for a little more.

You know...

Another thing that I've thought about lately that I think would be a lot of fun would be to put together a "historic" dirt tracker. Then you could just go out and run some exhibition laps between heats/features/whatever. Problem is, you'd have to get a few folks to do it to have it be any sort of fun.

The other problem is that it's a moderate-speed parade...not racing. I like racing. I'd just have to bring two cars to the track ;).

Clem

triumph5 wrote: There's what looked like a POS Mustang II for sale around the corner from me. Legitimate to run at Waterford SpeedBowl here in CT. Show up at Lime Rock with it, and you'd never get it off the trailer. My 2 cents

With a little work you could do both. From time to time we would take out street stock car, moe some weight, change the alignment and gears and take it to Bridgehampton. It doesn't really fit into any class but that doesn't mean you can't show up for a time trial club or open teack day and have a ball.

My dad ran dirt, asphalt, SCCA, and moto-x while I was growing up. He said the most fun he ever had was on dirt bullrings.

I ran dirt for about 5 years before going to asphalt for a couple more, before the costs outweighed the fun. There's a lot more to it than just buying a junker and running around in circles. Since you're already doing the divorce thing, you don't have that pressure on you. If I could go back and start over, I'd be the big fish in the small pond. Start in the lower classes, but learn to do it the right way, in the best equipment you can afford.. If you have the talent and the set up skills, you'll know when it's time to move up. If you don't, it's no biggie. Stay put and have fun. But, if it's worth doing, do it right.

triumph5 wrote: There's what looked like a POS Mustang II for sale around the corner from me. Legitimate to run at Waterford SpeedBowl here in CT. Show up at Lime Rock with it, and you'd never get it off the trailer. My 2 cents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Libre

Quote:

Lime Rock Park held a famous Formula Libre race in 1959, where Rodger Ward shocked the expensive and exotic sports cars by beating them on the road course in an Offenhauser powered midget car, normally considered competitive for oval tracks only.

I really mean a POS. not a single flat and straight panel on it anywhere. Even from 10 feet away, I could see some mild bends in the driver's side of the roll cage. Wally, you ran Bridgehampton. Good on ya! First track I ever drove on. The track day might be possible with the Mustang II I saw. And maybe surprise a few cars,too, for the owner wouldn't have cared too much with an off at Big Bend

Clem has some valid points on usage of a competition car. Maybe the talk of a "universal race engine" that's gaining traction (sorry) recently will help in somecars running in different classes. It'll never be like it was in the 60s and part of the 70s, but, there's hope. Make Indy count towar the World Driver's Championship, and things might change.

I've been thinking the same thing after going to the local dirt track a couple times over the summer.

The pure 4cylinder class has no minimum weight, has to be stock bodied and I think run DOT tires. I was thinking 924/944, but then regained some sanity and started thinking volvo. There's a $500 engine claim rule and any running porsche motor is worth more than that.

I'll probably end up paying more for my helmet than the car, lol.

clem if thats all there then go for it.... did you think about demo derby also? that is fun also.....

So what are the 2 local tracks?

We need to look at the rules, and start planning for you

Dirt tracking is just plain fun. But then, you already know that Clem.

You ran in the Bomber class, so you already know how cheap it can be. So get another and go have fun!

zomby woof wrote: So what are the 2 local tracks? We need to look at the rules, and start planning for you

24 Speedway, Moberly, MO (http://www.ssautosport.com/moberly/)

Callaway Raceways, Fulton, MO (http://www.callawayraceways.com/)

Clem, Zomby, and others,

Can you talk a little bit about the different classes and point a complete noob to some info on building one of these cars?

I'm dumbstruck that you can race a car and it could only cost you gas money!

J

Read the rules at the above tracks. In my second year of mini stock, I made about $2500 over the season.

It's a lot easier to lose money, though.

I'd be looking at running a full bodied car...probably a "Hobby Stock" type car, or possibly a "mini stock" class. They have "Hornets" around here which are typically 4 cylinder front drive cars (and I don't like front drive)...but the Callaway track allows 4 cylinder rear drive and trucks too...so that could be an option.

What I'd really like to have is a G-body GM with a small block chevy.

Basically, you need a cage, a fuel cell, a seat, a harness, a window net (and then the stuff you wear...helmet, suit, shoes, gloves, neck gear). They'll let you run a certain width of tire, a particular carburetor (old rochester 2 barrels, I figure), and they seem to allow 9" ford rearends pretty much universally.

It really is a pretty expensive conglomeration of parts...but once you have it put together, the upkeep should be pretty minimal.

If I could find a roller with a legal (and good) cage for $500, I'd save myself the time of putting one in a car...not to mention that it will have a bunch of the other stuff done.

I won't be the guy who goes out and spends a bunch of money to win at any cost. I'll be the guy who tries to build a car that will reliably finish races and work on my driving and setup skills at the expense of winning right out of the box.

Heck...I used to finish "in the money" (top 10) running my old Regal "Pure Stock" car with a 267 V8 (an obscure and unloved SBC), an automatic, and an upholstered bench seat!

Clem

Any racing is better than no racing. In my case if I want to go out and have cheap fun, it's off to the 1/8 mile drag.

I agree that Drag racing is a good choice. Again though, 1.5 hours just to get to a strip in these parts.

Also, drag racing and autocross just don't satiate my need. I need some door-to-door action.

Clem

Sounds like a blast.

One question- how much "engineering" are you allowed to do on the chassis?

Over the years, there have been some great articles in Racecar Engineering about dirt track set ups, and how you want to attach the rear end and such. being the creative GRM type, it seems to me that you could take a bunch of the good info and make a better car with a welder, drill, and some kind of cutter. And some parts that you can get at the annual swap meets (panhard bar, trailing link, etc.).

If the library who may have those isn't 1.5 hrs away, it could be a good read.

Can you get a live axle car nearby?

(oh, and some of us do have a TON of respect for the skills it takes to run an oval. Paved. W/O other drivers. So this one is pretty cool- have fun)

Dooo eeet.

Those mini rules are a little goofy. We don't have the 'American made only' thing in our rules. That seriously cuts down on what cars you can run. Mustang, S10, or even a 4 cyl Camaro would be OK. I never liked FWD cars either, but they can go. A VW Golf just won the all Canadian dirt track championship in ministock against some pretty hardcore Mustangs.

In the stock type classes, not much engineering is allowed. That's what the sportsman, and up classes are for.