Robbie said:
Current trucks are pretty darned good "do it all" mobiles. Commuting in absolute luxury, being a family car, high-speed road trips, doing real work like towing and hauling dirty stuff in the bed, off-road trips, camping, hunting, ikea trips, etc. Trucks can do all of that no problem.
And all you pay is slightly more at the pump because gas mileage isn't as great as a smaller vehicle. Is it a little harder to park downtown? Sure, but it's still not hard.
The only logical competition I see for a single vehicle that does almost everything well is from minivans. Sedans are dumb (so much wasted space), wagons give up tons of interior volume to minivans with realistically no other gains, small cars and sports cars obviously are built with a specific purpose (rather than "do it all") in mind, and SUVs are just trucks that can't haul dirty stuff.
I see America buying trucks as an overall very logical move, especially compared to some of the other junk we tend to buy.
All of this. Then it gets complicated when your racecar is a truck too.
They are too big, keep them off my lawn!
Trucks have become fashionable, oddly enough. There is a perceived safety aspect. There is the requirement twice a year to bring stuff home from home depot, or to tow the camper.
For the shop, I have a half ton Silverado. For commuting, I drive a B13 Sentra. I love it. I don't save enough gas to cover the extra insurance on the thing, let alone maintenance. For the highway, I have a Volvo xc90. I love it. The truck is not as comfy or as fast, but it is quite capable of driving across the continent tomorrow. For toys, I have an SRT swapped Neon, a speedy 82 Camaro, a 6.0 67 Camaro, and a couple of race cars. The truck has a stick shift, so I can pretend to be a hot rodder, just not as well.
If something happened, and I needed to get down to one vehicle, it would probably be the truck, because it is capable of doing everything I really need, just not as well as the specialty vehicles. They really can be all things.
Now, just to get in the spirit of slagging trucks, I would also suggest that a four door F150 with a covered five foot box and peeled cow seats is just a Grand Marquis, as created by safety and mileage legislation.
Edit: I see I could have just agreed with Robbie, if only he had started typing sooner.
mtn
MegaDork
7/23/18 1:30 p.m.
Well said, Robbie.
My personal opinion on vehicles is that if you need to move people, get a minivan. If you need to move things, get a truck. If you need to move both, get a Suburban. SUV's make little sense to me, but trucks I understand.
My current gripe, and it is a small one that really doesn't matter to me at all, is that if you want a crewcab and a long bed you're limited to a Ford or a 3/4 ton. I think a Colorado crew with a 6 foot bed would be awesome.
EDIT: Holy cow, that exists! I had no clue.
I really wish I could put our Grand Caravan on a modern 3/4-ton truck chassis with 4wd and a V8. The fuel economy wouldn’t take much of a hit, and I’d still retain all its practicality/seating. I’d have to extend the nose and wheelbase a couple feet to make room for the engine, but that’s fine.
Its way beyond my skill set though.
I'd love to have a truck again.
Driven5
SuperDork
7/23/18 1:54 p.m.
Robbie said:
Current trucks are pretty darned good "do it all" mobiles. Commuting in absolute luxury, being a family car, high-speed road trips, doing real work like towing and hauling dirty stuff in the bed, off-road trips, camping, hunting, ikea trips, etc. Trucks can do all of that no problem.
That's the thing though: Outside of towing, I could say all the same things about a Honda Fit and I feel it would be equally true. Honestly, I posted this more because after seeing all of these same types of endorsements for full size trucks over the years, I thought that there must be something to them...And was actually somewhat shocked to find out just how much my experience was the exact opposite.
And modern full size trucks are plenty fast so think it as a muscle vehicle u can use more as you wouldn’t want to take performance cars off road and performance cars aren’t exactly something that will make a great car to drive in the winter if u get snow. Some will do fine most not. Also take a look at the leg room in crew cab trucks that alone will show why lots buy them.
Cotton said:
Not sure how this is a surprise. The f150 has been the best seller for a long time.
More than 30 years, in fact.
Seriously. Doesn’t a car enthusiast forum seem like that LAST place people would be questioning people’s transportation choices?
One would think. But yet we get one of these every few months.
And with the HD trucks with diesel what performance enthusiast wouldn’t want an engine with nearly 1000 lbs feet of torque
TJL
New Reader
7/23/18 1:58 p.m.
SVreX said:
If I could only have 1 vehicle, it would be a truck.
This. I have 2 vehicles, both “small” nissan trucks. My “car” is a little ex cab 2wd 4cyl scooter truck. My other is a crew cab pro4x frontier, loaded. Comfy and a great kid hauler for my soon to be 3 year old son. Hauls stuff fine, tows my boats or trailers great.
Even amongst just f-150’s, the quality is dramatically different from where is was around year 2000. I fit in my small trucks, but im always more comfy in the bigger trucks.
Also if f-150’s are too big, how about all the bro-dozer super duty sized huge trucks driven by people that never haul anything or even own a trailer or boat?
TJL said:
SVreX said:
If I could only have 1 vehicle, it would be a truck.
This. I have 2 vehicles, both “small” nissan trucks. My “car” is a little ex cab 2wd 4cyl scooter truck. My other is a crew cab pro4x frontier, loaded. Comfy and a great kid hauler for my soon to be 3 year old son. Hauls stuff fine, tows my boats or trailers great.
Even amongst just f-150’s, the quality is dramatically different from where is was around year 2000. I fit in my small trucks, but im always more comfy in the bigger trucks.
Also if f-150’s are too big, how about all the bro-dozer super duty sized huge trucks driven by people that never haul anything or even own a trailer or boat?
But the diesels are able to make ridiculous amounts of horsepower,honestly there are 1000hp diesel trucks being daily driven .
Robbie
PowerDork
7/23/18 2:03 p.m.
Driven5 said:
Robbie said:
Current trucks are pretty darned good "do it all" mobiles. Commuting in absolute luxury, being a family car, high-speed road trips, doing real work like towing and hauling dirty stuff in the bed, off-road trips, camping, hunting, ikea trips, etc. Trucks can do all of that no problem.
That's the thing though: Outside of towing, I could say all the same things about a Honda Fit and I feel it would be equally true. Honestly, I posted this more because after seeing all of these same types of endorsements for full size trucks over the years, I thought that there must be something to them...And was actually somewhat shocked to find out just how much my experience was the exact opposite.
but are you being honest with yourself?
Can you take my ride on lawnmower and drive it 50 miles to another location? What if I want you to pick up 15 bags of really smelly 'fertilized' topsoil to re-do my front yard? Pick up that $100 big block chevy I just scored on CL? Help me move my fridge or couch? Can you even get a honda fit with air conditioned leather seats? Is your fit comfortable to drive at 70+ next to the semi's? Can you fit car-seats in the back and sit normally in the front? Carry a family of 4 plus 2 car seats, plus luggage for a week and a stroller? What if we went hunting and I just got a deer - can you bring it to the taxidermist for me?
You may be able to kinda do some of those, but no question the truck is better.
Driven5
SuperDork
7/23/18 2:03 p.m.
MotorsportsGordon said:
Also take a look at the leg room in crew cab trucks that alone will show why lots buy them.
Nobody in my family is over 6'6", so packaging and utility wise, it was mostly just wasted space.
Driven5 said:
MotorsportsGordon said:
Also take a look at the leg room in crew cab trucks that alone will show why lots buy them.
Nobody in my family is over 6'6", so packaging and utility wise, it was mostly just wasted space.
Well I’m only 5ft 7 but I love having legroom.
I still find myself needing to borrow bigger trucks since I got the Ranger. What ever happened to 8 foot beds?
It's still great to have after being stuck with a grand Cherokee, miata, and crown Vic for a couple years. Sure I could do some things with each vehicle, but being able to do all the things with one just makes things easier all around.
I should have sprung for the full size though, even without a car seat, my daughter doesn't fit in the back seat, so doing things as a family in the truck is rough. Luckily with split custody and another vehicle it's only a few things that are problematic.
Robbie said:
Current trucks are pretty darned good "do it all" mobiles. Commuting in absolute luxury, being a family car, high-speed road trips, doing real work like towing and hauling dirty stuff in the bed, off-road trips, camping, hunting, ikea trips, etc. Trucks can do all of that no problem.
And all you pay is slightly more at the pump because gas mileage isn't as great as a smaller vehicle. Is it a little harder to park downtown? Sure, but it's still not hard.
The only logical competition I see for a single vehicle that does almost everything well is from minivans. Sedans are dumb (so much wasted space), wagons give up tons of interior volume to minivans with realistically no other gains, small cars and sports cars obviously are built with a specific purpose (rather than "do it all") in mind, and SUVs are just trucks that can't haul dirty stuff.
I see America buying trucks as an overall very logical move, especially compared to some of the other junk we tend to buy.
Nicely put. I've had a truck in my fleet for three decades. Somewhere in the 90s I bought my first nice one and shortly thereafter I realized that I was driving the truck more than the Lincoln that was my daily driver. While it didn't ride as nicely the truck got similar mileage mileage, was just as comfortable and driving it meant that I didn't have to go home and get it if I needed to do truck stuff. I've been driving a truck as my daily since then.
Robbie said:
Can you take my ride on lawnmower and drive it 50 miles to another location? What if I want you to pick up 15 bags of really smelly 'fertilized' topsoil to re-do my front yard? Pick up that $100 big block chevy I just scored on CL? Help me move my fridge or couch? Can you even get a honda fit with air conditioned leather seats? Is your fit comfortable to drive at 70+ next to the semi's? Can you fit car-seats in the back and sit normally in the front? Carry a family of 4 plus 2 car seats, plus luggage for a week and a stroller? What if we went hunting and I just got a deer - can you bring it to the taxidermist for me?
Eh, I get where he is coming from. I drive a 20 year old E36 M3box. It has leather and A/C. I don't have a ride on lawnmower. I don't need to buy 15 bags of soil (i'd just have it delivered to my driveway), or a $100 big block, etc. Its fine at 70mph, just a bit noisy. I have a car seat in the back and can sit normally in front of it. I don't hunt, so I don't need to pick up deer. It's tight for a family of 4 for a week, sure.
My car fits 99% of my needs. In the case that I need to do one of the oddball things you mentioned, I can rent a tuck/suv/minivan or whatever for very little $ and I only have to deal with it temporarily. A close buddy of mine has a truck that I can borrow at will. I've used it once in the last ~3 years. I also rented a home depot truck for an hour once about 5 years ago.
A Camry or CRV would meet 98% of the needs of the average person.
I have no problem with people who buy and use trucks. It does bother me to see giant bro-dozers used as commuting vehicles.
Duke
MegaDork
7/23/18 2:35 p.m.
ebonyandivory said:
I personally HATE sitting commuter-car-low in traffic. Having a better view of my surroundings is reason enough for me to want a truck.
That works great until everybody drives a truck or SUV for the same reason. Then everybody is back to Square One, except 18" farther away from the ground.
SVreX
MegaDork
7/23/18 2:52 p.m.
Suprf1y said:
SVreX said:
If I could only have 1 vehicle, it would be a truck.
El Camino is clearly the answer!
The problem with modern trucks is that they are are just too damn small. I want a truly bigger truck
Definitely not.
El Camino compromises everything in ways that don’t work for me. Much too big to handle like a car, but the soft suspension makes it a crappy truck.
Nope. If I could only have 1 vehicle, it would be a real truck.
Keith Tanner said:
MotorsportsGordon said:
And with the HD trucks with diesel what performance enthusiast wouldn’t want an engine with nearly 1000 lbs feet of torque
...that weighs 8000 lbs.
And Run the quarter mile in the 15s or less stock
Honestly, if a family to downsize on the amount of cars they have (or even become a 1 car family), then these trucks/SUVs/crossovers make sense. I just find it nuts when a family has 2-3 SUVs, but hey, its their money not mine.
Driven5
SuperDork
7/23/18 3:11 p.m.
Robbie said:
Driven5 said:
Robbie said:
Current trucks are pretty darned good "do it all" mobiles. Commuting in absolute luxury, being a family car, high-speed road trips, doing real work like towing and hauling dirty stuff in the bed, off-road trips, camping, hunting, ikea trips, etc. Trucks can do all of that no problem.
That's the thing though: Outside of towing, I could say all the same things about a Honda Fit and I feel it would be equally true. Honestly, I posted this more because after seeing all of these same types of endorsements for full size trucks over the years, I thought that there must be something to them...And was actually somewhat shocked to find out just how much my experience was the exact opposite.
but are you being honest with yourself?
Can you take my ride on lawnmower and drive it 50 miles to another location? What if I want you to pick up 15 bags of really smelly 'fertilized' topsoil to re-do my front yard? Pick up that $100 big block chevy I just scored on CL? Help me move my fridge or couch? Can you even get a honda fit with air conditioned leather seats? Is your fit comfortable to drive at 70+ next to the semi's? Can you fit car-seats in the back and sit normally in the front? Carry a family of 4 plus 2 car seats, plus luggage for a week and a stroller? What if we went hunting and I just got a deer - can you bring it to the taxidermist for me?
You may be able to kinda do some of those, but no question the truck is better.
That's my point. Just because a vehicle can technically do something, doesn't mean it can do it well. My recent/current experience with it is that a truck excels at truck things, and suffers compared to any number of alternatives in every other meaningful (IMHO) way. And no, by 'alternatives' I don't actually mean a Honda Fit. Dynamically speaking (ride, comfort, steering, handling, maneuvering, etc) the only redeeming quality I have found is the performance of the 5.0L V8...But even that is substantially hamstrung by the chassis.
So again, if needing it for certain types of 'truck things' in addition to other non-truck things, I absolutely get it...Which is what I would expect most truck people here have them for, so it would be nice if all such people would please stop taking this so personally when you were explicitly excluded from the beginning. I'm no arguing that people shouldn't be able to buy whatever they want to buy either. So those knee-jerk self-righteous diatribes can end at any time too.
I'm seriously just trying to understand the truck love from all of the other people who would be substantially better served in every one of their uses by a non-truck. What exactly the 'lower half' of full size truck buyers see as so fantastic about them to makes them far and away the best selling vehicles in the country...Is 'image' really that important to the majority of Americans? Or as Americans that infatuated with potential/perceived needs, even if they're ultimately grossly overstated most of the time?
I don't get it any more than I would buying a Spec Miata as a daily driver, just because I might want to autox once or twice a year.
Driven5 said:
Robbie said:
Driven5 said:
Robbie said:
Current trucks are pretty darned good "do it all" mobiles. Commuting in absolute luxury, being a family car, high-speed road trips, doing real work like towing and hauling dirty stuff in the bed, off-road trips, camping, hunting, ikea trips, etc. Trucks can do all of that no problem.
That's the thing though: Outside of towing, I could say all the same things about a Honda Fit and I feel it would be equally true. Honestly, I posted this more because after seeing all of these same types of endorsements for full size trucks over the years, I thought that there must be something to them...And was actually somewhat shocked to find out just how much my experience was the exact opposite.
but are you being honest with yourself?
Can you take my ride on lawnmower and drive it 50 miles to another location? What if I want you to pick up 15 bags of really smelly 'fertilized' topsoil to re-do my front yard? Pick up that $100 big block chevy I just scored on CL? Help me move my fridge or couch? Can you even get a honda fit with air conditioned leather seats? Is your fit comfortable to drive at 70+ next to the semi's? Can you fit car-seats in the back and sit normally in the front? Carry a family of 4 plus 2 car seats, plus luggage for a week and a stroller? What if we went hunting and I just got a deer - can you bring it to the taxidermist for me?
You may be able to kinda do some of those, but no question the truck is better.
That's my point. Just because a vehicle can technically do something, doesn't mean it can do it well. My recent/current experience with it is that a truck excels at truck things, and suffers compared to any number of alternatives in every other meaningful (IMHO) way. And no, by 'alternatives' I don't actually mean a Honda Fit. Dynamically speaking (ride, comfort, steering, handling, maneuvering, etc) the only redeeming quality I have found is the 5.0L V8...But even that is substantially hamstrung by the chassis.
So again, if needing it for certain types of 'truck things' in addition to other non-truck things, I absolutely get it...Which is what I would expect most truck people here have them for, so it would be nice if all such people would please stop taking this personally. I'm no arguing that people shouldn't be able to buy whatever they want to buy either. So those self-righteous diatribes can end at any time too. I'm seriously trying to understand the love truck love from all of the people who would technically be better served in every one of their uses by a non-truck.
What I'm still stuck trying to figure out is what exactly the lower half of full size truck buyers see as so fantastic about them to makes them far and away the best selling vehicles in the country...Is 'image' really that important to the majority of Americans? Or as Americans that infatuated with potential/perceived needs, even if they're ultimately grossly overstated most of the time?
Capability is what probably attracts most Americans. I know plenty of people who recently got married and bought crossover vehicles even though they don't have kids yet and aren't planning to for awhile