The cam/lifter failure thing is so rampant I chose not to build a new flat tappet engine. Instead, I bought one that had already been running. I didn't get to choose the cam I wanted, but I also didn't have to rebuild the engine 3x before a set of lifters didn't fail.
This is an interesting discussion and as a former manufacturing engineer and buyer I would like to weigh in. Going offshore for a low volume auto parts market and selling quality is not a good plan. The enforcement of quality specs costs and even then junk gets into the shipments. I worked at one place that made high end hydraulic stuff that bought the metal partially machined from China then did the final cutting and sold as made in USA. Sleazballs!
But the question really has two components, what product line is best and how to get it made. The first item is key, market demand and volume will mean success or failure. For the last few years I have been in the MG and triumph crowd and get a kick out of how they defend points and condenser use instead of electronic but finding a set that lasts is tough. And even good ones are consumables but even then I doubt the volume would support startup costs.
The question is what collector vehicle is the most popular and will continue? Or what product do all car/truck types buy that demands high quality manufacturing? Getting them made is the easy part.
In reply to ddavidv :
I have a 460 I built for my truck i am restoring that I put a flat tappet cam in from a reputable source. I am a bit parnoid about the cam and have considered pulling it to install a roller cam but thats at least a 1k switch.
In reply to porschenut :
3 out of the last 4 Pertronix units I've installed have failed in short order or not worked out of the box.
They're just as bad for quality control.
There's other electronic ignitions out there but I can't be bothered to find out if they're any good or not.
MadScientistMatt said:This isn't a hypothetical for me: I have chosen to make replacements for Mopar alternator voltage regulators, followed by other electronics. This has been brewing long before the past election: I have looked at current offerings, concluded I could make a better part on my kitchen table, did build a better one on my kitchen table, and now I'm getting things in place to do a production run (at a US contract manufacturer; zoning laws start to get in the way of what they let me do on my kitchen table at this point, much to my inconvenience).
I know how to get these made right, I know there's a lot of dissatisfaction with existing parts, and I know the Mopar community to market this in, so that's what I am doing.
Getting them made is part one. Does part of that include an accurate and quick QC testing process?
Being able to document and show that process for customers should go a long way towards helping them to justify the higher purchase price.
93gsxturbo said:There are plenty of parts you can buy that are still made in USA - just can't be a broke dick about it.
BFGoodrich Tires - USA made
King coilovers - USA made
Bilstein 5100s - USA made
The list goes on and on.
I still don't understand the hubbub about buying "made in the US" garbage. My experience has mostly been that it costs twice as much and lasts half as long. Worse if it involves wires or circuits at all.
Exceptions to the rule exist sure, they do for everything, but my personal experiences tell me I'm better off buying 4 from China hoping for one good one for less than one made here hoping it's a good one.
I work on classic Minis almost exclusively, and buy most of my parts in England, so I wonder how this is going to impact me? One thing I know, my orders will have to be under $800 as DHL now will not deliver orders with a dollar value greater than that.
I buy some parts from Japan, as the Mini scene was rampant there in the 90's and there are a ton of Classic Minis still on the road there, and many small time outlets sprang up with some really well made stuff. Same issue, no idea what's going to happen going forward.
I'm sure some of the parts I got from England were sourced from China, but as they're all repackaged I have no firm idea of the COE on the smaller stuff, although I'm pretty sure most of it was UK made. I know that the sheet metal is all done in the UK.
I also bought and had excellent luck with Chinesium radiators off of Ebay, I guess those will be withdrawn as current stocks dwindle.
Tom1200 said:When I started as a buyer 30 years ago there was a lot of talk about Chinese products being likened to Japanese products of the late 50s. The consensus was that Chinese products would improve over time but they for the most part they really haven't.
More like Japanese products of the 60's and 70's, and they absolutely have improved. I don't know how you can say otherwise. How's your phone, TV, stereo, or any other electronics that used to be made in Japan. Some of the made in China tools we can buy these days are really good quality, and how about motorcycles? No shortage of quality bikes and e-bikes coming out of China too, not just the Chinese Hondas. My buddy's Surron has 240 race hours on it, been 100% trouble free, and it's about as Chinese as it gets. Not to mention all the OEM automotive stuff coming out of China
In reply to Peabody :
I was speaking about the components we bought in that statement. Given the feedback from others here who are still currently involved in manufacturing it sounds like the components being received haven't greatly improved.
It may be purely a case of built to a price but I'd wager their minimal quality control of it still exists.
my .02
PS..............my phone and TV came from Korea. LOL
Here's the fun part.
I have a SXS in the shop right now with a bad TPS.
It's the Chineseium TPS that I put in last year, from the Bezos site. It was about $20.00
I'm covering the labour to swap it out. Customer is buying a new one.
This time, we're installing a unit from Kimpex. A decent aftermarket supplier. The price is $36.00
The OEM unit from Polaris is $400.
I'm 99% certain the Kimpex and the no-name-Chinese unit are the same one.
I'm 80% certain the Polaris and the no-name-Chinese unit are the same.
I described the situation to the customer, he's happy to try the Kimpex unit to see if it works any better. If that doesn't last, then he will buy the OEM part.
Stupid part is, if I'm right and Polaris is just buying the same one and putting their money on it. Then the supplier gets to sell three instead of one. They're the only ones who are winning at this stupid game.
Tom1200 said:Keith Tanner said:We have the luxury of being able to explain why our parts are a better choice through our storefront, while vendor X selling on Rock Auto does not. And even then, we still have a fairly large percentage of customers who had to learn the hard way that quality parts are often less expensive than cheap ones in the long run.
So you're saying Faux brand coilovers aren't good??? LOL
I think most of us have learned this lesson one way or another; mine was cheap shoes.
Depends on what you consider "faux brand" coilovers? I'm pretty happy with the Fortune Auto 500s w/Swift springs on the BRZ with the exception that I went a bit too stiff on the spring rates and the camber plates aren't beefy like Ground Control or Vorshlag. And this isn't just confirmation bias for buying cheap $2100 coilovers.
I've driven on Ground Controls, FCM (only set up I didn't own but tracked a friends WRL car on them), VMaxx, 949 Racing (AST), MCS Doubles w/remote reservoirs, Eibach springs/Koni setup.
But instead of changing the spring rates, I'm likely going to buy a set of JRZ's from a friend and then sell the FA's.
In reply to z31maniac :
I get that there are bargain brands out there that work well but more often than not, they don't.
Ironic coil overs were mentioned; my Foxbody Mustang is a dual duty car. It has lowering springs and Konis. Sure Coilovers would likely make for faster autocross times but the current set up works well for a lot less
Anyone have any ideas on how current affairs will be effecting things on the other end of the "Made in USA" market?
I've been in the works of tooling up for making hand tools. Hand forged tools on more of the "boutique" end of the market.
Material cost increases for my product lines are not significant as most of the cost is labor.
I have enough margin to absorb some if the upper end prices go down, but if they go up, and I can still move product I'll happily ride out this situation.
In reply to ShawnG :
Now that is an opportunity. All the air cooled VWs, and every 4 cylinder british engine is a potential customer. The electronics inside are pretty basic, just use better quality components and offer a warranty.
In reply to Crackers (Forum Supporter) :
If what you are asking is if foreign consumers are going to line up to buy all these products that are newly minted as "Made in the USA" I can assure you that in the short term they are not. Go ask Kentucky how their bourbon sales in Canada and Europe are doing.
Grocery shopping was taking an extra half hour or so while the Missus would read the country of origin fine print. Now the grocers just write it out in big letters.
Will this all pass? Eventually. In the short term, it has been calculated by very smart people, that a captive consumer base of 330 million consumers should be enough to get the economy over the hump.
Wait... so... bourbon is going to get cheaper soon?
Or are they just going to barrel less now and in four to nine years there will be a shortage?
Here's a wide view source on the effects of tariffs on supply chains. It's written in 2021, so it isn't a commentary on the current ... stuff.
In reply to NOHOME :
I'm wondering about domestic sales and market share for companies like Fireball Tool, Mittler Brothers, or even Snap-On.
None of my proposed products would directly compete with Fireball, or Mittler Bros (yet) but would be targeting the same kind of people.
There's bars in Canada that have simply stopped serving bourbon.
Very few are complaining about it.
In reply to ShawnG :
You can't even get it in Ontario right now, I believe. The LCBO simply isn't distributing American products and they're the only source for liquor (retail or wholesale) in Canada's biggest province. Canadians are pissed and voting with their wallets.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I doubt very much that most americans have a clue how pissed off Canadians are. The 51st state joke was just that to most americans, Canadians saw it more as Putin eyeing up Ukraine for a visit in 2014.
In reply to Crackers (Forum Supporter) :
The entire tariff scheme is meant to benefit those types of manufacturing companies. With tariffs, the playing field will be level, and you have 330 million captive consumers. So lets see what kind of moves these manufacturers make with the opportunity.
My ( cynical) expectations are that, given a credible crisis, they will raise prices and pocket a profit for the exact same level of manufacturing effort. That is what I would do because gov tariff policies are not predictable/stable enough to invest the $$$ on long-term growth. If you have a US manufactured good, now is the time to invest your marketing $$$ on waving the flag and demonizing foreign competition because the Federal Gov is acting as an amplifier for that message.
So if you have a cottage industry that competes with imported products and your competitive advantage is quality/durability over the imported competition, now is your time to make hay and feed that captive market.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:Getting them made is part one. Does part of that include an accurate and quick QC testing process?
Being able to document and show that process for customers should go a long way towards helping them to justify the higher purchase price.
Yes, I've been keeping track of how I will test these and how I can demonstrate what I do differently from the start of the process. American companies are just as capable of turning out shoddy junk as anyone else if you aren't careful. So I plan to demonstrate what I'm doing differently beyond making them in the USA. This is going to be everything from data sheets with levels of detail almost never seen in this market to making sure the parts look very different in such a way to communicate they definitely aren't a white labeled existing product.
I was on a procurement webinar today and there was some very interesting information.
The overall sentiment was that there will be some sort of settlement and the real goal is to become less dependent on China, which of course will take time.
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