http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/29/news/companies/gm_buyouts.ap/index.htm
General Motors Corp. said Thursday that a quarter of its U.S. hourly workers will take the company's latest buyout and early retirement offers, opening the door for new hires who will make less money.
.....
GM never said how many workers it hoped would take the buyouts, but under a new labor agreement reached last fall with the United Auto Workers union, GM may hire up to 16,000 non-assembly workers at half the old wage of $28 per hour. GM said it would fill job openings with current employees wherever possible, but would also be hiring new workers.
not new but looks like the general is trying to save money like the rest of us right now.
I guess its good from a balance sheet perspective.
Apparently I have been living in a hole.
$28 an hour? Not even for the assembly guys (who I assume make even more)?
Dayum. I always said I shoulda skipped college and gone to trade school...
No, it's unions.
And it's one of the reasons we pay so much for things vs. what other countries pay.
That's vast oversimplification, but it is a reason.
And they get (or used to) that much more in benefits.
But when you live deep in Union country everything costs so much more so the net effect isn't nearly as great as it sounds.
And they don't get it.
I live in the heart of union country, the cost of living is cheap, taxes are respectable and the entire community understands that they can be closed down on a moments notice.
That being said new H3s are still blowing off the showroom floor to these morons.
I'd be pretty happy with half of 28 bucks an hour right about now. Those guys have been spoiled rotten for a long time, and it's finally catching up to them.
By the way, trade school doesn't work nearly as well as having family in the union, which is (was?) the best way into those jobs.
Back home, if somebody announced they had a new job at (UAW operated) Dana, the standard reply was, "Oh yeah? Who died?"
Looks like that joke won't make so much sense anymore.
$28/hr to screw in speakers. You don't need to go to trade school, you just need to be unskilled and have a few missing brain cells.
I am not a fan of teh unions, they once served a purpose that is now largely done by your friend and mine the govt. And the wages that these union workers got were ludicrous. It is a wonder that the general has been able to survive like this. I have friends who work on an assembly line of a company called Lithonia Lighting. they have been working their half a year and they now make $14/ hour. They would do anything to get paid $28 an hour.
All the UAW does now is suck the life out of what ever company they are attached to.
It's not just the General, Ford is cutting a bunch of salaried work force, which is even more serious IMO as they've already been hacking away at UAW labor and offered bunches of "packages" to those willing to leave.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080528/AUTO01/805280390
It's about time these businesses started leaning out the operation, it's necessity to stay competitve (or, in Ford's case, alive).
Bryce
JohnGalt wrote: I am not a fan of teh unions, they once served a purpose that is now largely done by your friend and mine the govt. And the wages that these union workers got were ludicrous. It is a wonder that the general has been able to survive like this. I have friends who work on an assembly line of a company called Lithonia Lighting. they have been working their half a year and they now make $14/ hour. They would do anything to get paid $28 an hour.
All the UAW does now is suck the life out of what ever company they are attached to.
Hey John - Love the ID and Avatar...
I'm sorry if my comment was offensive in any manner, but it's frustrating when these asshats get paid more for doing less than a mechanic at a dealership who gets dirty and greasy, and gets half the benefits.
@28/hr with benefits and minor overtime, they're making more than 85% of the engineers.
Raze
None
5/29/08 6:49 p.m.
That $28/year isn't take home pay, that's pre-tax, if you're union you may be on strike once every 2-4 years, your wages rarely go up and when they do you usually have to go on strike to get them which is lost time from work, you're usually on your feet for those 8 hours a day.
That being said I'm not a supporter of unions, as an engineer w/quite a bit of econ background they are an antiquated method of protecting labor.
If anyone wants to say they make too much do the math first, at the above rate assuming they work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day for 52 weeks a year that's an annual salary of just over 58k. That sounds like a lot until you realize you're now talking about being on the bottom of the worst tax bracket, where you loose close to 30% of your pay, so you take home more like 38k ish... Worse yet, is that once you realize this and see you could be in a much easier job at 30-40k and take home almost as much it's sickening....
Raze wrote: That $28/year isn't take home pay, that's pre-tax, if you're union you may be on strike once every 2-4 years, your wages rarely go up and when they do you usually have to go on strike to get them which is lost time from work, you're usually on your feet for those 8 hours a day.
That being said I'm not a supporter of unions, as an engineer w/quite a bit of econ background they are an antiquated method of protecting labor.
If anyone wants to say they make too much do the math first, at the above rate assuming they work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day for 52 weeks a year that's an annual salary of just over 58k. That sounds like a lot until you realize you're now talking about being on the bottom of the worst tax bracket, where you loose close to 30% of your pay, so you take home more like 38k ish... Worse yet, is that once you realize this and see you could be in a much easier job at 30-40k and take home almost as much it's sickening....
I don't even know where to start with this post... Hmm..
Pre-tax? Well, duh. When was the last time you got a new job and told them how much you want to make AFTER taxes?
If it's "sickening" to think that you could do easier work and make just a little less money, why wouldn't John Union go for it? Because he wants to make more money. That's pretty much how it works. As was mentioned, an auto mechanic (aka automotive technician) doesn't make that much money on average and has a hell of a lot more skilled knowledge, tools, etc. to fix cars rather than build them. If you think it's "sickening" that they could make just a little less and have much easier lives, imagine what all the people think that are working way harder and making as much or less than the average union worker.
The union wouldn't have to strike to get a raise if they weren't already making $28/hour. Most of these union workers for the big 3 aren't living in expensive areas, as was pointed out, in these areas those wages are really good money before even getting overtime, holiday pay, benefits, etc. factored in.
Bryce
I think I disagree with you. Not all of their earnings are taxed at the same rate.
0-8k is taxed at 10%.
8k-32k is taxed at 15%
32k -78k is taxed 25%
So the total average isn't as bad as you say.
And that's if they're single.
If they're married 58k is still the 15% bracket....
is it just me, or has detroit been hanging on by it's teeth for 20-30 years now
Wally
SuperDork
5/29/08 9:10 p.m.
If the money thing is what is eating at most of you, you should have reseached salaries before picking a career. There is money out there if you can take a job no one else wants. I wouldn't get out of bed anymore for less then $28 an hour.
They make far more than $28 an hour when you factor in all the benefits. I had a friend that worked for Chrysler, he has since retired. This was probably in the 1999-2001 time frame. He worked on the assembly line and at that time had been there nearly 30 years. He of course was a union guy, Anyway, they needed his help the last week of the year and asked him to work. The week between Christmas and New Years. Because he was scheduled to have it off and he worked he now received double time. He also received holiday pay per union contract so he was now at triple time. During that week he also ended up working overtime because they were busy. End result for one week of work on the line, completely unskilled just attaching doors to vehicles he made.....................$3500. I wouldn't beleive it if I didn't know him and trust him. I could go on and on having grown up in Detroit but this whole mess has been coming a long time and now they are all paying the price.
Say what you will, $14/hr for a career is pretty crummy.
$14/hr for a career is bad, yes.
But weren't these guys part-time? $28/hr for part time seems pretty damn good. $14/hr is still pretty good for a part-time job. Heck, I've worked part-time for the same company for about six years now, and I would certainly be happy if I earned close to $14/hr.
They work full time - 40hrs/week.
I'd hardly call assembly line work a "career". I know thats what it was for some people, but maybe GM realized that and is moving away from it. McDonalds doesn't expect anyone to flip burgers there for the rest of their life. Consequently, they don't pay as if you are doing so. $14 an hour is good pay to do mindless unskilled labor.
I worked in a plant for a while (as an engineer) where the labor was union. It was pretty god damn annoying. I could only touch/use certain machines, and I couldn't encroach on what was a "union job" or I'd basically be taking money from someone. I know of several people that would simply create overtime for themselves by taking forever to get something done. In the beginning I had no idea how much money these people made. After I found out, that job became a bit more frustrating.
