You knew this was coming.
I expect fans to argue, but I was thinking about the two makes.
Ford has a jump on having an EV pickup in the market, but I think Chevy might have more experience with EVs overall. Chevy may come in at a slightly lower price, but Ford tends to sell more trucks.
Do you think brand loyalty is going to have more to do with purchases, or since these are kind of new, will people be shopping on merits and reviews?
I guess I'll start: I canceled my Lightning EV reservation. I could stomach a $39k truck. I was even willing to pay, say, $10k extra for the bigger battery. But $72,000 minimum to get the longer range battery? No thanks--especially with competition from Chevy. I'm going to see how this plays out for a few years.
Maybe it's just me but when I see Chevy & EV in the same sentence I can't help but think about what happened with the EV1. Leasing them out, so close to a supposedly great battery deal at the time then it all collapsed & demanding them back & destroying all but I think 1 of them. People actually liked them if I remember the movie.
Was going to bring up Hydrogen/EV but that's a whole different discussion.
Tom Suddard said:I guess I'll start: I canceled my Lightning EV reservation. I could stomach a $39k truck. I was even willing to pay, say, $10k extra for the bigger battery. But $72,000 minimum to get the longer range battery? No thanks--especially with competition from Chevy. I'm going to see how this plays out for a few years.
I expect that once the initial rush dies off Ford will offer the bigger battery at the lower trim levels as well. They're probably constrained by battery supply at the beginning, so it makes business sense to tie the extra battery capacity to the trucks with higher profit margins. I wouldn't hold my breath for an extended range battery in a bargin Chevy either, for the same reason. :)
As for the Lightning vs Electro-lanche, I'm not going to buy either because my only use for a truck is towing a race car to the track and EVs just don't do that very well yet.
I'm such an anti Ford person I can't even consider the lightning. But I do appreciate the more traditional truck build.
If I were shopping truckish/suv-ish type things I would choose the Rivian. And I'm a GM guy at heart. But I like my trucks to be made like traditional trucks and the chevy isn't. Neither is the Rivian but that thing almost had me examining my finances recently. I just wish the front end was less ugly.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:
Ford has a jump on having an EV pickup in the market, but I think Chevy might have more experience with EVs overall. Chevy may come in at a slightly lower price, but Ford tends to sell more trucks.
Do you think brand loyalty is going to have more to do with purchases, or since these are kind of new, will people be shopping on merits and reviews?
An early poll of Lightning reservation holders showed an interesting mix of people with interest.
Its a small sample and not the most scientific but it's some insight. A decent chunk of them have EV ownership experience (potentially GM customers), and a decent chunk are current F150 owners.
- Conceptually, I like GM's plans with Ultium and their various motors. Of course it remains to be seen how they'll stack up with competitors on range, price, charging rates, etc.
- Ford is now planning for 150k Lightnings per year by mid 2023, which may be before the Chevy's even begin rolling off the line considering they're starting with nothing but renderings at the moment. That gives Ford market advantage.
- The Ford's more traditional styling probably benefits the company (economies of scale/ engineering commonality) and is more likely to appeal to conservative truck buyers.
I think Ford has nailed the "electric F150" brief. That is 100% what it is, and I think it's what it needs to be. It's the one that will make serious inroads into the overall marketplace.
Chevy went a little too concept truck with theirs and I think it will hurt them.
I do wonder about the battery choices. Getting the big one is just like buying a Diesel engine - not available in all models, a substantial price increase but also able to do stuff the gas trucks can't. Everyone assumes they need the biggest battery pack they can get (just like they need the maximum torque available) but of course it costs more.
I've said from the start that I think Ford's pricing model is banking on battery costs continuing to fall. Until they drop a little more, they'll use the high margin packages to make up the difference. They'll still sell all they can make.
Can ford package the lightening gear in the maverick? If so, I'm totally down. And I'm a GM guy. Otherwise both options are pretty meh to me. But I'm totally not the demographic for either as I have no EV experience, and never bought a new car.
Keith Tanner said:I think Ford has nailed the "electric F150" brief. That is 100% what it is, and I think it's what it needs to be.
Exactly this.
RE: the battery pricing, it sucks, but I wonder how many people that will truly impact (other than psychologically). The base truck seems like an excellent deal and more than capable enough. It really only seems to fall a bit short on towing distance, which is admittedly a target of this crowd. What % of F150 owners tow like that?
ProDarwin said:Keith Tanner said:I think Ford has nailed the "electric F150" brief. That is 100% what it is, and I think it's what it needs to be.
Exactly this.
RE: the battery pricing, it sucks, but I wonder how many people that will truly impact (other than psychologically). The base truck seems like an excellent deal and more than capable enough. It really only seems to fall a bit short on towing distance, which is admittedly a target of this crowd. What % of F150 owners tow like that?
Yep, this 100%. I would have no problem buying an electric Maverick with 230 miles of range--that would be perfect. But that's just not enough range for my primary tow vehicle.
I really like the Rivian the best of all the electric trucks, except, I like our Tesla so much I might end up with Cybertruck...
Beyond those two, my preference is then Lightning, Hummer, and finally the Chevy.
ProDarwin said:RE: the battery pricing, it sucks, but I wonder how many people that will truly impact (other than psychologically). The base truck seems like an excellent deal and more than capable enough. It really only seems to fall a bit short on towing distance, which is admittedly a target of this crowd. What % of F150 owners tow like that?
There are plenty of F-150 owners who never tow anything.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
In reality, yes. But do they perceive it the same way?
I think this anxiety-driven need for maximum battery will eventually die down. It'll probably be the commercial buyers who have a much better handle on daily use who will drive it - they'll look at their logs and see that 200 miles is more than x% of their trucks ever do, so they'll buy x% of their trucks with a 200 mile battery. Then those will end up on the secondary market.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
In reality, yes. But do they perceive it the same way?
I think the perception issue is more of a problem with the battery capacity than towing. A lot of people are willing to say "I'm not going to tow anything", but a lot fewer are willing to say "I'm only rarely going to drive more than 200 miles and I'm willing to put up with a bit of inconvenience on those rare occasions".
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Agreed. Around here, trucks are more likely to be for work than toys but I understand that a lot of them are really big cars for people.
As more EV owners talk to their friends, people will realize that the occasional rare inconvenience is balanced off by frequent convenience. As I've mentioned before, you don't miss having to gas your car up on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure my wife would strongly argue it's a good trade-off.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
In reality, yes. But do they perceive it the same way?
I think this anxiety-driven need for maximum battery will eventually die down. It'll probably be the commercial buyers who have a much better handle on daily use who will drive it - they'll look at their logs and see that 200 miles is more than x% of their trucks ever do, so they'll buy x% of their trucks with a 200 mile battery. Then those will end up on the secondary market.
If $/mile ends up being pretty low, and reliability is high then I'm not sure they would end up on the secondary market, at least not as quickly as ICE trucks might. The reason most fleets sell their vehicles at a given mileage is to avoid expensive powertrain repairs, or frequent down time from little issues. Electric trucks will require that those calculations have to be redone if they end up having better long term reliability. They'll still have suspension components and some things that need to be replaced, but the potential exists to really change what fleets do with their vehicle ownership
I would think that making an electric pickup would be easier than a car. Just slide the battery pack between the frame rails, pack a motor in the rear axle and off you go. Plenty of room under the hood for motor controllers, charger, etc.
Clearly there is more to it. I like how Ford made the Lightning look more traditional. The Chevy looks too much like another generic SUV with a small bed.
Anybody know what the body of the Chevy will be made of? I'm guessing steel since they're not highlighting anything new and exciting. Early reports say the Hummer has a steel bed too, so anything different would be surprising here.
We're all expecting these EVs to need less maintenance during their lives, and potentially have several hundred thousand miles of life. But as somebody who lives in the rust belt, I can see body rust potentially sending otherwise useful Silverados to the big suburban garage in the sky while the aluminum Fords could theoretically carry on.
STM317 said:Keith Tanner said:In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
In reality, yes. But do they perceive it the same way?
I think this anxiety-driven need for maximum battery will eventually die down. It'll probably be the commercial buyers who have a much better handle on daily use who will drive it - they'll look at their logs and see that 200 miles is more than x% of their trucks ever do, so they'll buy x% of their trucks with a 200 mile battery. Then those will end up on the secondary market.
If $/mile ends up being pretty low, and reliability is high then I'm not sure they would end up on the secondary market, at least not as quickly as ICE trucks might. The reason most fleets sell their vehicles at a given mileage is to avoid expensive powertrain repairs, or frequent down time from little issues. Electric trucks will require that those calculations have to be redone if they end up having better long term reliability. They'll still have suspension components and some things that need to be replaced, but the potential exists to really change what fleets do with their vehicle ownership
Agreed. They'll hit the secondary market eventually, but it may be quite a bit later.
STM317 said:Anybody know what the body of the Chevy will be made of? I'm guessing steel since they're not highlighting anything new and exciting. Early reports say the Hummer has a steel bed too, so anything different would be surprising here.
We're all expecting these EVs to need less maintenance during their lives, and potentially have several hundred thousand miles of life. But as somebody who lives in the rust belt, I can see body rust potentially sending otherwise useful Silverados to the big suburban garage in the sky while the aluminum Fords could theoretically carry on.
Sweet. More EV drivetrains to swap into old iron. EV '70 Blazer sounds fun.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but figured folks on this thread may find this interesting. It's the head of JCB explaining the use of hydrogen powered ICE vehicles for construction.
STM317 said:Anybody know what the body of the Chevy will be made of? I'm guessing steel since they're not highlighting anything new and exciting. Early reports say the Hummer has a steel bed too, so anything different would be surprising here.
We're all expecting these EVs to need less maintenance during their lives, and potentially have several hundred thousand miles of life. But as somebody who lives in the rust belt, I can see body rust potentially sending otherwise useful Silverados to the big suburban garage in the sky while the aluminum Fords could theoretically carry on.
You say that as if rust isn't already what kills Chevy trucks 
The Fords have steel frames, no? Cabs don't make a truck scrapworthy, junk frames do.
In reply to m4ff3w :
I'm with you, the Rivian would be the best truck for my use case, and it even undercuts the price of a similar F-150 by a bit. The one big thing it really lacks is the vehicle-to-grid capability that the other two have available, and it would be hard for me to buy a huge-battery EV without that capability.
I like how the Lightning looks better plus it has a cooler name. Other than that I got nothing as I am not the target demographic.
In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :
For 40+ years I was a Chevy guy. I bought 20 new Chevy's plus probably another 10-15 used.
Yet my last new purchase was a Ford F-150. 2 real reasons. The first is aluminum. My last Chevy lasted 20 years and 371,000 miles. Only rust ended it. Ford solved that with military grade aluminum.
Second price. The F150 was $8500 cheaper than the same Chevy. Not in list price but a dealership willing to sell a truck at minimum profit.
Ford didn't mess around. The first offer they made allowed only $230 gross profit plus the 2% hold back. ( nobody gets that, normally used to pay floor plan interest )
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