Nate90LX said:It will have to be 16’ or less...
This makes me a little curious...
I’m not sure what the criteria is that it “HAS” to be smaller than 16’... available parking or something?
If you are new to trailers, you should realize that the size DOES NOT include the tongue. A 16’ trailer is actually 19-20’ long.
Might not matter, but I figured you should be aware.
Listen to Curtis. He’s giving you good advice.
In reply to Nate90LX :
Yes, 12’ is too short for a car hauler.
Unless it is a completely dedicated hauler for a specific vehicle like a Midget.
Been internet browsing trailers for a few months now. I have a '98 K1500 with a 5500lb tow rating (350/4L60/3.42gear/factory trans cooler/LT tires) and I'd like to tow a '91 Prelude, '99 Civic, and maybe in a stretch a '69 C10 longbed.
Yesterday I tried towing a car for the first time. Rented a U-haul car trailer (2210lbs empty as per the website) and moved my Prelude.
That thing was a tank. Braking was a bit sketchy, not sure I really felt like the hydraulic surge brakes were doing anything. Power was fine, and it was totally fine at speed. The U-haul doesn't allow any variation in vehicle placement so I'm pretty sure the tongue weight was too high. I'm curious to know how much different a 1400-1800lb 16" car hauler with a better located load and electric brakes would feel.
I've got a brake controller and 7 pin connector that I need to install to test the theory.
Op SVreX said:In reply to Nate90LX :
Yes, 12’ is too short for a car hauler.
Unless it is a completely dedicated hauler for a specific vehicle like a Midget.
There are plenty of race cars where 12 feet is adequate. MG, Sprite, Formula Ford,Formula Junior, Formula V, smaller sports racing cars like my Black Jack Special (88 inch wheel base) etc etc.
You need to understand Urban and Suburban requirements. Not just rural. When I first started racing I stored the MGTD a trailer and the Tow vehicle a S10 Blazer in a one car garage.
The MG was parked sideways in the front of the garage. The trailer had the tires and fenders removed and hoisted up to the rafters. And the SUV , tool box bench etc took up the remainder. That left my wife’s car outside on the driveway. But when she left for work she took most of the driveway snow with her.
Run_Away said:Been internet browsing trailers for a few months now. I have a '98 K1500 with a 5500lb tow rating (350/4L60/3.42gear/factory trans cooler/LT tires) and I'd like to tow a '91 Prelude, '99 Civic, and maybe in a stretch a '69 C10 longbed.
Yesterday I tried towing a car for the first time. Rented a U-haul car trailer (2210lbs empty as per the website) and moved my Prelude.
That thing was a tank. Braking was a bit sketchy, not sure I really felt like the hydraulic surge brakes were doing anything. Power was fine, and it was totally fine at speed. The U-haul doesn't allow any variation in vehicle placement so I'm pretty sure the tongue weight was too high. I'm curious to know how much different a 1400-1800lb 16" car hauler with a better located load and electric brakes would feel.
I've got a brake controller and 7 pin connector that I need to install to test the theory.
U-Haul car trailers are too heavy. But they are designed for meat heads use. Surge brake work fine if kept lubricated so they slide and apply brakes according to how hard the tow vehicle is stopping.
Electric brakes are just on-off switches. All the dial does is switch the brakes on sooner or later. A properly lubed surge brake applies the brakes harder or softer depending on how hard they need to be.
Light trailers work fine. One that no I used to do is weld a set of spindles on my home made trailers from the same bolt patter as the tow vehicle. That way I only needed one spare tire.
Plus I could make the ride height as low as possible. Easier to load and unload. Plus I never put springs on my trailers. The race car had springs, and The tires had a certain amount of give to them.
One other trick I did was I made the ramps and runners just wide enough to keep road spray off the underside of the race car. The ramps were added stiffening because they slid into a slot at the front and bolted to the rear trailer frame rail.
I never weighed my trailers but I doubt if they were much over 650-700 pounds.
frenchyd said:There are plenty of race cars where 12 feet is adequate.
Right. Except that’s not what the original poster said he wanted to use the trailer for.
He said picking up random project cars at a moment’s notice. (And also mentioned a Fairmont wagon). I stand by my statement. 12’ is not adequate for what he is looking for.
You are answering a question that was not asked.
Curtis said:I'm weird with overkill. I love overkill, but also think it's, umm... neat to test limits and see how things do. I had a 73 Impala that I used to beat the snot out of just to see where it would fail... including towing 12,000 lbs with it; 4000 lbs worth of 32' steel trailer with an 8000 lb midsize tractor on it. It was awesome in every category except sway and suspension. Air shocks at max, 255/75-15s at max pressure, and it still punished the bumpstops. Glad I was only going 40 miles and no one died.
Overkill is perfect for me when I'm towing long distances. Towing a 5k trailer with an F350 powerstroke is like driving just a truck. You almost forget there is a trailer. Stretching the limits is neat for a trial, kinda like getting new tires and finding some deep snow to see how they do, but for real towing, overkill is the key.
Across town... use a Tercel. Across the state, use a Trailblazer. Across the country, use a late model F150.
There is the whole trade off thing though. Heavy truck heavy trailer costs more to buy more to pay for gas etc need a bigger place to store,
In reply to Nate90LX :
You specifically asked about a Miata.
A Miata is about 13’ bumper to bumper. So technically, you could probably fit it on a 12’ trailer, with a little overhang.
However, the factory tie downs are very close to the front and rear extremes. That means you can’t strap the front tie down to the front of the trailer, or the rear to the rear of the trailer. The only way to strap it down is under the car... the front of the car has to be strapped to the back of the trailer, and the back of the car to the front of the trailer. Yes, this is possible. But honestly, it’s annoying.
It doesn’t make loading the car quicker or easier.
frenchyd said:Electric brakes are just on-off switches. All the dial does is switch the brakes on sooner or later. A properly lubed surge brake applies the brakes harder or softer depending on how hard they need to be.
Older brake controllers, yes. Newer ones are far more complex. You set a gain with the dial, then the box itself has load sensors that detect how much G-forces are present and apply a pulse-width-modulated signal to vary braking. A properly adjusted electric brake controller is a dream and more reliable/effective than most surge systems.
I have a Tekonsha Voyager in my truck that was $100 and it is fully digital. When I get it just right, I get perfectly proportioned trailer brakes that match the truck and I don't even really notice any difference in my foot effort to stop the load.
Run_Away said:
That thing was a tank. Braking was a bit sketchy, not sure I really felt like the hydraulic surge brakes were doing anything. Power was fine, and it was totally fine at speed. The U-haul doesn't allow any variation in vehicle placement so I'm pretty sure the tongue weight was too high. I'm curious to know how much different a 1400-1800lb 16" car hauler with a better located load and electric brakes would feel.
Yes, the tongue weight is too high, you can tell that just by looking at the amount the truck's rear suspension is compressed. The real killer with U-haul trailers, though, is that they are not reliably available when you want them. You can make a reservation, but most U-haul locations only have one or two and they are often returned late. So you show up and they don't have one and you're SOL.
As for overall trailer length, I agree on the length thing. You can custom build a trailer for a specific race car and make it really small, but it probably won't tow anything else. The weight distribution will be wrong, the tie downs will be in the wrong place, etc. IMHO, even a 16' deck is pushing it -- Miatas and MR2s fit on the one I had just fine, but it was very tight when I was towing my friend's E36. I have an enclosed trailer now (and only room to park one), but if I were buying another open I'd go 18'.
SVreX said:In reply to Nate90LX :
You specifically asked about a Miata.
A Miata is about 13’ bumper to bumper. So technically, you could probably fit it on a 12’ trailer, with a little overhang.
However, the factory tie downs are very close to the front and rear extremes. That means you can’t strap the front tie down to the front of the trailer, or the rear to the rear of the trailer. The only way to strap it down is under the car... the front of the car has to be strapped to the back of the trailer, and the back of the car to the front of the trailer. Yes, this is possible. But honestly, it’s annoying.
It doesn’t make loading the car quicker or easier.
I never use factory tie downs. The reason is if you strap the tires down the car will be much more secure. If you use chassis tie downs as the car goes over bumps the straps tighten and loosen. Jerking and snatching on every bump. Thus the instant load is multiplied many times. Greatly increasing the required strength of tie downs.
Wire wheel Knock offs are the fastest way to tie a car down, one wrap around each tie down and the car is secure for across country trips. So you don’t need to get down and your hands and knees to reach under and feel for the chassis tie down spot.
OK if you don’t have wire wheels you need to get a tire bonnet for the same ease of tying down.
frenchyd said:OK if you don’t have wire wheels you need to get a tire bonnet for the same ease of tying down.
Axle straps through the wheels.
SVreX said:frenchyd said:There are plenty of race cars where 12 feet is adequate.
Right. Except that’s not what the original poster said he wanted to use the trailer for.
He said picking up random project cars at a moment’s notice. (And also mentioned a Fairmont wagon). I stand by my statement. 12’ is not adequate for what he is looking for.
You are answering a question that was not asked.
The OP is not the only person reading this. Too often big expensive trailers are bought and with them expensive tow vehicles because some are led to believe that is what is required.
This is GRM, we don’t race NASCAR and need to haul 10’s of thousands pounds of spares using great big semi’s
light small efficient trailers work just fine and are definitely more in keeping with the nature of the group.
codrus said:frenchyd said:OK if you don’t have wire wheels you need to get a tire bonnet for the same ease of tying down.
Axle straps through the wheels.
That’s a good suggestion if the wheels are open enough for the strap and buckle to fit through
codrus said:Run_Away said:
That thing was a tank. Braking was a bit sketchy, not sure I really felt like the hydraulic surge brakes were doing anything. Power was fine, and it was totally fine at speed. The U-haul doesn't allow any variation in vehicle placement so I'm pretty sure the tongue weight was too high. I'm curious to know how much different a 1400-1800lb 16" car hauler with a better located load and electric brakes would feel.
Yes, the tongue weight is too high, you can tell that just by looking at the amount the truck's rear suspension is compressed. The real killer with U-haul trailers, though, is that they are not reliably available when you want them. You can make a reservation, but most U-haul locations only have one or two and they are often returned late. So you show up and they don't have one and you're SOL.
As for overall trailer length, I agree on the length thing. You can custom build a trailer for a specific race car and make it really small, but it probably won't tow anything else. The weight distribution will be wrong, the tie downs will be in the wrong place, etc. IMHO, even a 16' deck is pushing it -- Miatas and MR2s fit on the one I had just fine, but it was very tight when I was towing my friend's E36. I have an enclosed trailer now (and only room to park one), but if I were buying another open I'd go 18'.
Hauling a race car it’s nice to have a light compact trailer that can easily be stored. If you make a profession out of hauling junk cars around, sure get a big truck and trailer and just endure the costs and Inconvenience. Up until the late 50’s plenty of Indy cars arrived on single axle trailers pulled by a 1/2 ton pickup.
Even today a single axle trailer will haul plenty of our size cars. Plus be easier to park, move around and live with. 12 foot beds will carry plenty of cars. I hauled my first race car across country from San Diego to Minneapolis back and forth on a 9 foot bed trailer. It was a Jaguar XK150 with 106” inch wheelbase.
The only problem I had was when a trailer tire ( $10.00 recap) blew out at slightly over 100 mph when I was going by the Booneville salt flats.
A new recap and straightened out trailer wheel and I was back on my way.
FYI, I have a 16" enclosed dual axle that I use for Miatas. The MG will fit inside, as will the CRX. But you're definitely limited to what you can carry.
I've had a wheel come off a trailer (always check the lug nut torque, every time) on a double axle. No drama at all. It would have been a lot more exiting on a single axle.
Just saying, truck and trailer (20ft and new when bought) were less than $9500 total. Very useful when driving half way across the country to pick up a free S600 Mercedes.
I've carried engines, matresses, and 13 people in this vehicle; extremely useful. And the 7.3 diesel hasn't let me down in the 10k or so towing miles I've put on it. Adding a winch to the trailer was super helpful in picking up random projects as well. Mind you I don't need all the seating room and usually I have the third row removed but damn she's done everything I've asked and more.
Also I don't live in a rural area and finding space for all of this is just a matter of trying.
Bottom line is when you decide you want a truck and trailer then you've also decided that you are ready to pay to play. Maintenance, storage, insurance comes with it. I don't think it's exactly smart to try and go with the smallest tools for the job when it comes to hauling vehicles. Bite the bullet upfront for peace of mind. Also, it's nice that I probably will never need any more truck or trailer than what I already have.
Ok In reply to Keith Tanner :
Out of the hundreds of thousands of miles I’ve towed trailers only once did I have any excitement. Sure I shouldn’t have been towing at over 100 mph on a single axle trailer with cheap recapped tires. But I was and yes a tire blew out. I handled the initial swerving without panic and let the drag slow the trailer down without stepping on the brakes. Put the spare on and went into Salt Lake City for another recap and to have the bent wheel straightened.
So no a single axle isn’t worse with a blow out or coming off than duals. Both can cause trouble if you panic or handle the problem wrong.
As for smart to be efficient in sizing for your intended usage? We will have to disagree. On my little single axle trailer I hauled all sorts of cars, a Jeep a few times, and lots of machinery.
My normal tow vehicle early on was an El Camino and that little trailer did everything I asked of it. It was ruined when the guy who used it to haul his Jeep around tore a wheel off it by hitting a parked car. I built another using an S10 Blazer SUV as the Tow vehicle. Again single axle, Unsprung.
San Diego a lot, a few times to Atlanta, once to the Bahamas, once to Watkins Glen, twice to mid Ohio, dozens of times to Elkhart Lake and even more to Brainerd. Plus many to BlackHawk.
That’s when I decided to build enclosed trailers. Basically tandem trailers with a Fiberglas shell to enclose them. I still have the molds to do those but I never figured out how to make a profit making one. In fact I only broke even on the 28 footer triple axle. The rest basically I gave away my labor.
Oh I forgot my 4 foot trailer. A little wire wheel trailer I pulled behind my MGTD with tools and spares plus all my camping stuff. It pulled very easy.
Stuffing all that stuff in the TD for the early vintage races kind of made me blind to the rear. It only took me about 3 hours to make and paint.
Trailer purchasing can be it's own thread all by itself.
From the research I've done, it doesn't seem to be worth buying used as they barely depreciate.
Run_Away said:Trailer purchasing can be it's own thread all by itself.
From the research I've done, it doesn't seem to be worth buying used as they barely depreciate.
Why not weld up your own trailer? Car trailer is simple. If you trust your life to the roll bar you welded in, why not? I buy recycled metal and buy a pair of spindles with the same bolt pattern as the tow vehicle. It’s really easy and you’ll wind up with exactly what you want.
There are a lot of great responses here. It sounds like I need to figure out (for both the trailer and tow rig) if I want to only fit small cars (like the Miata) or I need to step it up to accommodate almost any car. It looks like a 5000 lbs tow rated tow rig is really going to limit my options to either really light trailers or larger trailer with a low weight limit on cars.
It seems like 18’ is the right size for a do-all trailer that I’m looking for. I’d like to have the open center, so I can use it for easy emergency drive train and underbody repairs for the car on the trailer. I figured I could put down some wood planks in the center for carrying mulch or other things that need a center.
I had tossed around the idea of building a trailer, and if I only wanted it for the Miata I would build a 12’ single drop axle that was less than 1000 lbs. But as previously stated, that will seriously limit my options. And another fun fact, some places (like equipment rental) won’t let you load on a home built trailer or a trailer without a GVWR tag.
So basically in summary, I need to get a big tow rig and big trailer. Anything else will be limited, sketchy, or both. This has me rethinking the whole thing and it might be better to just pay for a flat bed tow truck when I need it, but I like to be self sufficient and I’m cheap.
And some more information, I have a rural gravel driveway and a barn, so I have places to stash a any of the tow vehicles and trailers without getting in the way or pissing off my wife (too much). Also, I have an E30 project car which will also probably end up on a trailer at some point (in fact that’s the only way to move it right now).
In reply to Nate90LX :
You don't need the biggest truck you can find just one that can do what you want plus a bit more. I think a 5.3 or 6.0 suburban or Chevy truck will serve you well. Same with a older v10/(7.3 if you're lucky) f250 or excursion. Those aren't expensive choices at all if you look in the right place Texas-SouthWest US. Im sure there's japanese choices as well but I don't know enough about those.
frenchyd said:Ok In reply to Keith Tanner :
Out of the hundreds of thousands of miles I’ve towed trailers only once did I have any excitement. Sure I shouldn’t have been towing at over 100 mph on a single axle trailer with cheap recapped tires. But I was and yes a tire blew out. I handled the initial swerving without panic and let the drag slow the trailer down without stepping on the brakes. Put the spare on and went into Salt Lake City for another recap and to have the bent wheel straightened.
So no a single axle isn’t worse with a blow out or coming off than duals. Both can cause trouble if you panic or handle the problem wrong.
As for smart to be efficient in sizing for your intended usage? We will have to disagree. On my little single axle trailer I hauled all sorts of cars, a Jeep a few times, and lots of machinery.
My normal tow vehicle early on was an El Camino and that little trailer did everything I asked of it. It was ruined when the guy who used it to haul his Jeep around tore a wheel off it by hitting a parked car. I built another using an S10 Blazer SUV as the Tow vehicle. Again single axle, Unsprung.
San Diego a lot, a few times to Atlanta, once to the Bahamas, once to Watkins Glen, twice to mid Ohio, dozens of times to Elkhart Lake and even more to Brainerd. Plus many to BlackHawk.
That’s when I decided to build enclosed trailers. Basically tandem trailers with a Fiberglas shell to enclose them. I still have the molds to do those but I never figured out how to make a profit making one. In fact I only broke even on the 28 footer triple axle. The rest basically I gave away my labor.
Oh I forgot my 4 foot trailer. A little wire wheel trailer I pulled behind my MGTD with tools and spares plus all my camping stuff. It pulled very easy.
Stuffing all that stuff in the TD for the early vintage races kind of made me blind to the rear. It only took me about 3 hours to make and paint.
We’re going to have to disagree on the drama level with losing a wheel. I didn’t actually notice the wheel come off the dual axle, someone else had to flag me down. Meanwhile, you’re proud about how well you handled the situation. The point is that you had to handle it.
If you’re towing cars, a single doesn’t make any sense. A single 5k axle is going to be marginal with anything other than a single seat racer on it, so get twin 3.5k axles instead. There’s no downside.
I used to have a sweet little trailer with a single torsion suspension axle trailer and an open deck. Super-easy to hook up and tow. Perfect for a 1200 lb car. It visibly sagged with a 2300 lb car on it. And it was no easier to store as my current 16’ dual axle enclosed. Going undersized doesn’t really save any effort.
In reply to Nate90LX :
One of the smartest things i did was sell my open trailer and call for a rollback whenever i need it, which is generally once a year now. I used the open trailer a lot more than once a year, because it was really easy to hook up and go make horrible decisions on junky vehicle purchases. There’s a reason I’m 38 and have had 95 cars, and that trailer was a big part of it.
Having to make a call and pay for the tow makes me think whether or not i really want something before i buy it and not on the way home with it on my trailer.
Keith Tanner said:frenchyd said:Ok In reply to Keith Tanner :
Out of the hundreds of thousands of miles I’ve towed trailers only once did I have any excitement. Sure I shouldn’t have been towing at over 100 mph on a single axle trailer with cheap recapped tires. But I was and yes a tire blew out. I handled the initial swerving without panic and let the drag slow the trailer down without stepping on the brakes. Put the spare on and went into Salt Lake City for another recap and to have the bent wheel straightened.
So no a single axle isn’t worse with a blow out or coming off than duals. Both can cause trouble if you panic or handle the problem wrong.
As for smart to be efficient in sizing for your intended usage? We will have to disagree. On my little single axle trailer I hauled all sorts of cars, a Jeep a few times, and lots of machinery.
My normal tow vehicle early on was an El Camino and that little trailer did everything I asked of it. It was ruined when the guy who used it to haul his Jeep around tore a wheel off it by hitting a parked car. I built another using an S10 Blazer SUV as the Tow vehicle. Again single axle, Unsprung.
San Diego a lot, a few times to Atlanta, once to the Bahamas, once to Watkins Glen, twice to mid Ohio, dozens of times to Elkhart Lake and even more to Brainerd. Plus many to BlackHawk.
That’s when I decided to build enclosed trailers. Basically tandem trailers with a Fiberglas shell to enclose them. I still have the molds to do those but I never figured out how to make a profit making one. In fact I only broke even on the 28 footer triple axle. The rest basically I gave away my labor.
Oh I forgot my 4 foot trailer. A little wire wheel trailer I pulled behind my MGTD with tools and spares plus all my camping stuff. It pulled very easy.
Stuffing all that stuff in the TD for the early vintage races kind of made me blind to the rear. It only took me about 3 hours to make and paint.
We’re going to have to disagree on the drama level with losing a wheel. I didn’t actually notice the wheel come off the dual axle, someone else had to flag me down. Meanwhile, you’re proud about how well you handled the situation. The point is that you had to handle it.
If you’re towing cars, a single doesn’t make any sense. A single 5k axle is going to be marginal with anything other than a single seat racer on it, so get twin 3.5k axles instead. There’s no downside.
I used to have a sweet little trailer with a single torsion suspension axle trailer and an open deck. Super-easy to hook up and tow. Perfect for a 1200 lb car. It visibly sagged with a 2300 lb car on it. And it was no easier to store as my current 16’ dual axle enclosed. Going undersized doesn’t really save any effort.
You did notice I said I was going in excess of 100 mph? As to the strength of a trailer you can have a very heavy trailer with little strength. Or a light trailer with plenty of strength.
In fact one project I would still like to do is a very light enclosed trailer. I still have the molds so I’d like to use carbon fiber with a little aluminum and a goal of 650 pounds capable of carrying 2000 pounds.
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