Towing with a Dodge Caravan?

^I had a good look at that outfit at Mosport a few summers back. It reminded me of a mid-seventies Eldorado that lives around my hometown that's been hacked, with a fifth wheel hitch attached to where the trunk used to be. I generally see it pulling a large (30 plus foot) sailboat.

Toyman, it gets a lot harder when you try to do it to a non-FWD vehicle.

You've never met Jensenman before have you...

Well, its been done with the 1st gen turbo version:

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/the_caravan.html

Toyman01 wrote:

Keith wrote:

I wonder if I could do this to an E150... Hey Jensenman warm up that plasma cutter...

Childs' play. One day project.

It's less of a hack job than you might think. http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=21

My E150 Chateau does weekly duty as a family car but can haul and tow, so far it has hauled about 8 cars is the past 5 months and been to the Rolex 24 a round trip of 2300 miles, next week she'll be towing another car back from NY.

It is a factory fitted 351 with the class IV tow kit, those going to the Mitty will see it in action again. So versatile and 16 mpg to boot.

Total price $1600 and now they are less.

I bought another IT car today and used the White Stallion & tow dolley to pick it up. She felt good and I'm going to stick with the old beast this summer.
I'll be sure and post back if anything crazy happens.

aussiesmg wrote: My E150 Chateau does weekly duty as a family car but can haul and tow, so far it has hauled about 8 cars is the past 5 months and been to the Rolex 24 a round trip of 2300 miles, next week she'll be towing another car back from NY. It is a factory fitted 351 with the class IV tow kit, those going to the Mitty will see it in action again. So versatile and 16 mpg to boot. Total price $1600 and now they are less.

Mine does regular duty hauling a 20' enclosed trailer all over the state. 5.4 Triton does pretty good as long as the ground is flat. If I am headed into the hills, I hook up the flatbed. As long as I keep the speeds reasonable mileage is about 10-11. With the foot stuck in it I have seen as low as 7 MPG. When headed to an autocross or tractor show I have the car or antique engines and usual junk plus the family and all their junk. I figured about 14000 pounds pulling out the yard. Having an air conditioned trailer at a 95 degree autocross or tractor show is worth it.

The Chrysler FWD automaic is structurally sound. What kills it is heat. Chrysler never (at least through 1996 when I bought my last new Mopar mini-van) fixed that problem. Four-cylinder mini-vans seemed to keep their trannys around longer. The V6 vans would tend to toast their transmissions between 60K and 80K miles. The key to a long lasting Mopar transmission is a transmission cooler. Ading a cooler transforms a problematic unit into one which is bulletproof. Most really fast Turbo Dodges (12 seconds 1/4 miles and quicker) use automatic transmissions.

FYI: Cooling problems is why Chrysler installed three-speed autos in Neons.

Moparman wrote: The Chrysler FWD automaic is structurally sound. What kills it is heat.

Agreed. It can kill a lot of fwd auto-transmissions. A cooler is required. Also, with smaller vehicles, don't use "O/D" (or whatever the lockup function is called with your vehicle), when towing.

And one thing that's especially important with Chryler boxes is to use ATF+4 fluid.

Don't use Dexron or Mercon.

I honestly wonder how much of the "problems" with Chrysler auto-transmissions can be traced back to folks putting the wrong fluid in them?

On that subject - O/D and towing - what's the concern? Is it heat? I keep my 2000 Tundra out of OD when towing my enclosed trailer, tow weight of approximately 4500 lbs. Good plan, or should I just let the truck decide the ideal gear and maybe save me a few mpg on the flat?

You need to be in a gear that will let the torque converter lock. My E250, as you ease on the gas unlocks the converter then if it is still loosing speed drops a gear and re-locks the converter. Running in third with the converter locked is much better than O/D with the converter constantly unlocking. Having the converter unlocked all the time dumps massive amounts of heat in to the system. A sure way to burn one up. My enclosed trailer I lock out the O/D and tow in third, the flat bed I leave it in O/D.

Makes sense. I'll pay attention to that.

I have this strange transmission in my hauler.

There's a third pedal and this "H" pattern on the shifter.

Never had a single problem with the transmission.

Shawn

Yeah, that would be nice, but Ford doesn't put manuals in vans anymore. Six people in a P/U doesn't work too well.

Lucky for me, I've never torn one up. If you drive them right and keep them cool they'll last a long time. I try to keep them from having to shift under hard loads also. Getting off the gas for that split second it takes it to shift takes a lot of abuse off the clutch packs and bands. And personally I never service them. I have seen a lot of them go to pot right after a standard service.

Toyman01 wrote: You need to be in a gear that will let the torque converter lock. My E250, as you ease on the gas unlocks the converter then if it is still loosing speed drops a gear and re-locks the converter.....

In an E250, I'd agree. But we're talking about smaller vehicles like minivans here.

In smaller vehicles you may get "gear hunting" and excess, undampened loads on the clutch packs. I agree that running without lockup can drive convertor heat up, but that's what the cooler is for. Obviously, fuel mileage takes a hit too.

I guess the most useful thing to do is to consult your owner's manual. The manual for my Freestar says it's OK up to 3500 lbs (with the tow package) but do not use o/d (lockup), so I'm sticking to their recommendation.

With all of this said, I do know a guy who always tows using lockup in his Chrysler V6 minivan (pulling a Sprite) and has had good luck. So far......

If I have a long stretch of downhill, I do shift into o/d (lockup) to save a bit of gas and give the engine a break for the higher RPMs, but that's the exception.

The Trooper locks up in 3rd and 4th as long as conditions are right which means under just about all highway speed conditions it's locked up unless you touch the brake. I put a horkin' big ol' tranny cooler on it and and run it in O/D, no problems.

Toyman01 wrote: Yeah, that would be nice, but Ford doesn't put manuals in vans anymore. Six people in a P/U doesn't work too well.

Now this is exactly why I don't buy new vehicles.

My 1996 F-150 has a 5-speed, the E-150 could be had with one too.

I just don't get auto manufacturers these days. "Tow with a manual? Why would you do that?"

Shawn

My biggest rant about towing with a auto is you can't use the full power of the engine. As you power down on it to climb a hill, the trans downshifts. I hit the big bridge by the house with my enclosed trailer at 65, and hit the top at 45 in third. if you mash the gas on down, it will top it at 55, in second. Listening to a 5.4 Triton at 5000 rpm for half a mile makes my skin get up and run away. If I could lock it in third and get to wot it would probably pull 55 without screaming its guts out. Oh well, it's paid for and spends most of the time in the yard. I'll just have to deal.

Toyman01 wrote: Listening to a 5.4 Triton at 5000 rpm for half a mile makes my skin get up and run away.

Is that anything like listening to an 'unintended multiple displacement 3.8 with a fried C3 tranny' ThunderTerd for 16 hours?

Believe it or not, its worse, I didn't really care if the variable displacement 3.8 came apart in spectacular fashion. Sitting half way up a bridge kind of sucks.

aeronca65t wrote: In smaller vehicles you may get "gear hunting" and excess, undampened loads on the clutch packs. I agree that running without lockup can drive convertor heat up, but that's what the cooler is for. I guess the most useful thing to do is to consult your owner's manual. The manual for my Freestar says it's OK up to 3500 lbs (with the tow package) but do not use o/d (lockup), so I'm sticking to their recommendation. If I have a long stretch of downhill, I do shift into o/d (lockup) to save a bit of gas and give the engine a break for the higher RPMs, but that's the exception.

Let's be clear here. I don't believe Over-Drive has anything to do with whether your tranny has a "lock-up" torque converter or not.

You either have a lock-up torque converter or you don't.

The reason you don't tow in O/D is because it puts too much strain on the drive train running a less then 1:1 tranny ratio when pulling a heavy load.

The torque converter in my 1999 5.9L Durango is a "lock-up" torque converter and will lock-up in ANY gear, including O/D.

All lock up converters lock in OD, the problem is when the computer thinks you need more power, it unlocks the converter to allow the rpm to increase. This is particularly a problem on car chassis. At highway speeds it might spend more time unlocked than locked. The buildup of heat then destroys the trans. Truck chassis don't have this problem as much because they expect you to tow with them some. Most Ford trucks with the larger engines (5.4 v8, V10 and PS) do not unlock the converter for more power. Ford knows this destroys transmissions, so the computer downshifts the trans and re-locks the converter. FWD autos regularly unlock for added power. The wifes venture will unlock at the bottom of a hill and not re-lock until the top. With the right load behind it, it will stay unlocked in OD, but will stay locked in 3rd. In that situation, lock out the OD and run in third.

Sidenote on Odyssey transmissions: In 2007, they upgraded to the Ridgeline style transmission and different optional cooler designs.